Crash at the bottom of 9 - near the water station

[bitcollector]

Hey barfers,

Here is a video of my 2nd crash in 25 years of riding. (it's a couple of years old now)
https://youtu.be/GG8MTndpvSg

Looking for any tips on what I did wrong or could have done better.

This happened at the end of a 3 hour ride through the Santa Cruz mountains and 2 weeks removed from the track. It was literally at the VERY end of a long ride and I was obviously riding too fast for the conditions having just been at the track recently and feeling a little too confident.

It looks like I entered the turn too fast, got scared of the guard rail rapidly approaching and stood the bike up trying to scrub speed and avoid the rail when I should have just leaned the bike over a bit more to try and make the curve.

I would have much preferred a lowside into that guardrail as opposed to hitting it the way I did and being thrown up over the front of the bike. I walked away from the accident but had to go to the emergency room as I was sure I had broken something. It turns out I just had a really nasty separation and now I have this funky looking shoulder bone that sticks up out of my skin

Also, on my way home from my last trip to skyline last week I noticed that same guardrail is completely destroyed now, looks like a car or truck took it out recently.

 

[Enchanter]

Your path of travel through the corners could have been much better. It didn't look like you were riding with a plan in mind.

You basically set yourself up to run wide in that turn, and it appeared that you resigned yourself to running wide / gave up.

Your speed may have been too much for skill level at the time, but it didn't appear to be too fast to make that turn.

Never stop looking through the turn, run better lines (late apex), don't give up trying to make the turn.

 

[ScottRNelson]

Race track lines and public road lines should be different. Enchanter already mentioned the late apex. When you use a late apex in a turn you should be able to tighten it up at any point, coming from the outside of the lane to the inside.

We also have quite a few BARF members encouraging trail braking, but if safety is the top priority, get all of the braking done before the turn begins, enter it from the outer edge of the road and bring the bike to the inside at the end of the turn (the late apex). You should be able to crack the throttle as soon as you get leaned into the turn if you've judged your entry speed correctly. If not, you can still brake while turning. Unless you're leaned over at knee dragging angles, you can brake while turning without having to stand the bike up. If you're leaned over 30 degrees, you still have approximately HALF of your traction available for the brakes without changing your lean angle. You definitely could have used the brakes without standing the bike up in your video. And you definitely could have just given it a bit more lean angle too.

Since it's been two years and apparently you're still riding, you must have already figured all of this out.

 

[bitcollector]

Enchanter, appreciate the feedback on the late apex and I think that you are right about not riding with a plan......ride was literally over.....I think I let my guard down early.

Scott, you are correct about lean angle and trail braking, I'm just now starting to learn about these advanced techniques after a few trackday sessions and watching lots of MotoGP races.

Time to reread "Sport Riding Techniques", lots of good stuff in there that I obviously forgot about.

Thanks again for taking the time to watch the video and provide some feedback, I'm always looking to learn and improve.

Cheers!

 

[thepretender]

Yeah you went in hotter than you thought and saw the guardrail and hit what you were looking at. If you had forced yourself to look into the turn you likely would have made it. When I get "that feeling, over my head" I snap my head to look where I need to go and instantly it all make sense again.

 

[terdog55]

I would suggest that you consider changing the way you complete your corners.
The majority of your turns, if not all of them, you started in 1 "track" and crossed into the other track, usually mid corner.
When you cross over you run through the dirty middle where oils and debris collects.
Slow down and get in control. The speed will come.

Glad that your OK.

 

[bitcollector]

I would suggest that you consider changing the way you complete your corners.
The majority of your turns, if not all of them, you started in 1 "track" and crossed into the other track, usually mid corner.

I got this feedback, that I need to work on my lines, from one of the track day riders who was following me for a couple of laps last time I was out at Thunderhill so I think you are right about that as well.

Stock suspension on the Ninja 1000 is not the best but I'm not using that as an excuse, that said it's the next "upgrade" on my list.

 

[Slow Goat]

I think the “unsettled” part began back at the end of the fairly long tar-snake. Then I don’t have a clue... it wasn’t the tightest turn in the last 500 yards and you just drove into the guardrail/stopped applying lean.

Hope it didn’t hurt too bad. Partzilla is our friend in these occasions; shouldn’t be too e$pensive.

 

[tzrider]

I got this feedback, that I need to work on my lines, from one of the track day riders who was following me for a couple of laps last time I was out at Thunderhill so I think you are right about that as well.

The line you were on didn’t help, but it didn’t make the crash unavoidable either. Prior to this series of turns, you were going quite fast. You had to slow considerably for this series and this can mess with your perception of speed if you aren’t used to such big changes.

If you watch the video from turn entry to crash, you’ll notice that in the first half of the turn you were holding steady throttle, the lean angle was moderate and the bike was running wide. About midway through, you rolled off the gas and picked up the lean angle. This is a strong indication that your attention was on the guard rail.

By rolling off and either maintaining your lean angle or increasing it a little, you could have stayed on the road and completed the turn. In order to do that, it’s essential to get your attention back on where you want to go. It’s hard to tear your eyes away from something you’re afraid you’re going to hit, but something you must consciously do.

 

[gixxerkid]

Keep in mind too that this corner is a decreasing radius corner. It starts consistent then it gets sharp real quick. I frequent 9 on the weekends and can vouch that this is a late apex corner so prepping up by going wide at the beginning of the corner is best practice. Another good reason to late apex this very corner is due to charter buses and motor homes making their way up the hill. In order for the rear end of these machines to clear the mountain side, the left corner of the front bumper will protrude out over the double yellow and risks the chance of clipping an oncoming car or worse, one of us. stay wide and apex late.

 

[NorCalBusa]

It looks like I entered the turn too fast, got scared of the guard rail rapidly approaching and stood the bike up trying to scrub speed and avoid the rail when I should have just leaned the bike over a bit more to try and make the curve.

^ This.

 

[afm199]

Your path of travel through the corners could have been much better. It didn't look like you were riding with a plan in mind.

You basically set yourself up to run wide in that turn, and it appeared that you resigned yourself to running wide / gave up.

Your speed may have been too much for skill level at the time, but it didn't appear to be too fast to make that turn.

Never stop looking through the turn, run better lines (late apex), don't give up trying to make the turn.

Yes, this. I was going to say the same thing only not as well.

And you are adding throttle at full lean a couple of times, not the best practice.

 

[danate]

I think most of what needs to be said was said already. Remember to choose a turn point that is where the turn actually starts. You consistently begin your turn early, which brings you up along the line or shoulder too soon, leading you to go wide on your path out of the turn. That along with the decreasing radius turn set off your fear response and target fixation did the rest. In those few moments when you were headed for the guard rail, there was still time to turn your head, give a strong steering input and get back on the throttle (just a little) to sharpen your turn and still make it.

When I first took riding classes, I was always taught that when I felt like I was going wide to "look more, push more" and never roll off the throttle completely. I've gone into that turn too fast as well, but by turning my head and leaning the bike more, it just left me with a scraped peg and the knowledge that I biffed my entry speed.

The best solution is to use better judgement and set a lower entry speed, especially on the road when the conditions can be ever-changing.

 

[Lionel Cosgrove]

Sounds like you clutched in as well, no power to the wheel

 

[bitcollector]

The line you were on didn’t help, but it didn’t make the crash unavoidable either. Prior to this series of turns, you were going quite fast. You had to slow considerably for this series and this can mess with your perception of speed if you aren’t used to such big changes.

If you watch the video from turn entry to crash, you’ll notice that in the first half of the turn you were holding steady throttle, the lean angle was moderate and the bike was running wide. About midway through, you rolled off the gas and picked up the lean angle. This is a strong indication that your attention was on the guard rail.

By rolling off and either maintaining your lean angle or increasing it a little, you could have stayed on the road and completed the turn. In order to do that, it’s essential to get your attention back on where you want to go. It’s hard to tear your eyes away from something you’re afraid you’re going to hit, but something you must consciously do.

Some really solid advice here, I really appreciate the time to respond and help make me a better rider. After the accident happened I had a hard time figuring out what happened, even with the video. It's awesome to have a community of experienced riders to help me break it all down

 

[bitcollector]

Keep in mind too that this corner is a decreasing radius corner. It starts consistent then it gets sharp real quick. I frequent 9 on the weekends and can vouch that this is a late apex corner so prepping up by going wide at the beginning of the corner is best practice.

Prepping would have helped immensely, a mental map if you will.

I was riding more aggressively than normal (recent track day with my first ever peg scrape) and the fact that I normally ride slower probably saved my bacon coming down the many times before. The decreasing radius turn never really stuck out in my mind, having never really been an issue before.

Now I consider my ride over by that point and ride very conservatively as I approach that corner.

 

[bitcollector]

Hope it didn’t hurt too bad. Partzilla is our friend in these occasions; shouldn’t be too e$pensive.

The pain to my shoulder was some of the worst pain in my life.

I sat at home with a ruptured appendix for the better part of a week so I've got a pretty high pain tolerance, to go along with my stubbornness

When they told me nothing was broken and sent me on my way I was in shock how much "soft tissue damage" alone could hurt.

The bike was an easy partzilla fix, I did all the work myself and the Insurance company was nice enough to pay for everything, even my gear. I came out ahead in the deal as the labor was a substantial part of the repair bill.

 

[bitcollector]

And you are adding throttle at full lean a couple of times, not the best practice.

More good food for thought. Looking forward to a few more track sessions and maybe paring up with an instructor to get some first hand feedback.

The few times I've been so far, there has been so much information to take in; so much so that as I reflect, I really was not working on the things I should have as much as I was just out there having fun in a controlled environment.

Lot's of things to work on next time I'm out there since I now have a base under me if you will.

 

[bitcollector]

I think most of what needs to be said was said already. Remember to choose a turn point that is where the turn actually starts. You consistently begin your turn early, which brings you up along the line or shoulder too soon, leading you to go wide on your path out of the turn. That along with the decreasing radius turn set off your fear response and target fixation did the rest. In those few moments when you were headed for the guard rail, there was still time to turn your head, give a strong steering input and get back on the throttle (just a little) to sharpen your turn and still make it.

When I first took riding classes, I was always taught that when I felt like I was going wide to "look more, push more" and never roll off the throttle completely. I've gone into that turn too fast as well, but by turning my head and leaning the bike more, it just left me with a scraped peg and the knowledge that I biffed my entry speed.

The best solution is to use better judgement and set a lower entry speed, especially on the road when the conditions can be ever-changing.

Once again, thanks again for taking the time to respond, it's much appreciated as I want to avoid this at all costs in the future and I obviously need to work on my technique as I ramp up the speed.

It's been ages since I took a riding class, but they always mentioned the same thing with regards to "target fixation", it's a lesson learned and then forgotten, only to be relearned through experience, instead of the "book knowledge" if you will. I'm hoping the next time I find myself in this situation my new found "instinct" takes over.

 

[bitcollector]

Sounds like you clutched in as well, no power to the wheel

Another really good point. I've watched this video hundreds of times and it's only recently, after posting to barf, that I noticed this. Clutching the bike is most certainly going to change the lines as the suspension frees up.

I'm thankful that this community helped me to come to sense of what really happened, lots of things that I never even considered.....it's kind of eye opening.....I mean I've been riding all my life.....but it's only recently that I've really started pushing the limits if you will.

I'm glad there was no oncoming traffic and this was a solo accident, its the best way to learn. My only other accident was also solo.....a kickstand left down before the sensors made there way onto every bike.