CA SB 227 Save competition motorcycles (red sticker)

[OaklandF4i]

New thread to follow SB 227 in 2021

To make things easy, Red Sticker = non California emission compliant and Green Sticker = California emission compliant. Note the exception of non California emission compliant model year 2002 and older bikes which were grandfathered in as Green Sticker bikes

As many folks know and understand, the Red Sticker program is going away. Many folks seem to focus on the fact that all the old Red Sticker (non emission compliant) bikes will eventually be able to be ridden year round on public land after 2025. In 2025 there will no longer be a designation or difference between Red and Green Sticker (emission compliant) as things stand today. While this may be true.... there is A LOT, actually many more negative impacts.

First, after model year 2021 no two stroke offroad motorcycles will be allowed to be sold, registered, or ridden on public lands in California. No, you won't be able to just go to Nevada and buy a two stroke and then register and ride it in California. Public lands not only include state SVRA's like Hollister or Carnegie, but all of our National Forest and BLM lands... all the good stuff. So if you want a modern two stroke, buy one this year. That fact isn't going to change with this bill.

Secondly, all the other previous Red Sticker bike models, i.e. competition four strokes, will also not be able to be registered after the 2021 model year. That's pretty much the majority of any bikes ridden by most folks who aren't already riding two strokes. If you can't register them, you can't ride them on public land. Basically a ban as well. This also includes a huge swath of beginner play/trail bikes too.

You will be able to buy and title a Red Sticker four stroke bike in California, but the title is not a registration to ride on public lands. California title and registration are two different things. Your California titled Red Sticker four stroke will only be allowed to be ridden on PRIVATE land.

Important take away is that this is not just about two strokes or even just competition motorcycles. Its about two, four, and many play/trail bikes.


Don't expect the OEM's to come in a fill the hole with a bunch of Green Sticker bikes. While we are a large market in the US, that market is still pretty small, tiny in world scheme of things. It hasn't and isn't happening as of yet.

Yes there are a handful of Green Sticker bikes that people could still buy. A few that have been grandfathered in with no changes made (so they aren't subject to the new emission rules) like a CRF250X, along with other models made to meet the new emission rules like the KLX300. In addition there are few street plated bikes like the FE350 etc that meet California Street Legal emissions.

None of the bikes mentioned in the previous paragraph would be raced by most folks. For most regular folks, one bike is all they have, and if they race, where are they going to ride, train, or practice offroad? Certainly not public lands anymore.

Speaking of racing, what affect would not being able to register a race bike have on races themselves. Most offroad races also take place on public lands.

What about any of the competition non emission compliant four stroke bikes still sold after 2021 and their registration fees? No registration, no money going into the OHV fund. Fore those not racing but still wanting a rideable bike, that will mean one of the Austrian plated dualsports that meet street legal emission standards. No big deal right? Again, plates don't put money into the OHV funds either.

As you can hopefully see, this is going to have a MAJOR detrimental impact to all aspects of offroad riding, the sport, and industry here in California.

Am I getting your attention yet? Hope so :laughing

Last year Senator Jones sponsored SB 1024. The gist of this legislation would have at least allowed the state to register Red Sticker four stroke competition motorcycles. Not saving the two strokes, but the fourstrokes. Riders who wished to ride such a bike with such a registration on public lands would have to carry a valid and current competition license. The state would then also be required introduce rules for riding seasons for such bikes, just like.... you guessed it..... red sticker bikes and their seasons again. Its step in the right direction.

Unfortunately, SB 1024 did not become law last year. It moved through all the committees and got the votes it needed, but did not get signed into law. Many folks just assumed it was going to pass and become law.... it didn't. Most likely another casualty of Covid, dunno.

Senator Jones has reintroduced the bill for 2021 as SB 227. It's obviously now or never.

Hope to use this thread for folks to keep track of the legislation and the very important issue to all of us who love offroad riding of any kind.

Perhaps Butch can provide us some updates with his contacts or anyone else who wishes to. I'm not an "insider" and looking for updates and or action we can take.

If I have made any errors in my summary above, please feel free to comment and I will edit. This is the issue as I know it.

Follow along, comment, get involved.

 

[elemetal]

Thanks CJ, just like we were talking about at the last stony barf ages ago...this could be the death knell for offroad.

One thing about your summation; I think 2021 and earlier red stickers will stay red stickers until 2025 when they will be grandfathered in as green stickers; you will still be able to reg/title them. Pretty sure they will still obey regular red sticker season until 2025.

MY 2022-2025 you will be able to title but cannot ride on public lands. You can compete on these (most events have a restriction bypass clause) at the event on public lands only.

MY 2025 and on you cannot title in CA at all; only able to use on private land; only get an MSO.

FYI; we've had trials events at PC for many years, never had to pay entry or have a valid sticker for the event. Last year for the first time you had to have a valid sticker to get in the gate, CARB rules weren't waived because we don't compete on the closed track (Hangtown). That's where it seems to be going for all the OHV areas.

 

[SFMCjohn]

Follow along, comment, get involved.

:thumbup

here's the Leginfo.gov link, where us regular folks can try to follow the process/progress of the state Senator Jones's 2021 version of the bill, and read the text of the 2021 bill:
SB-227 Off-highway vehicles.(2021-2022)

On 1/28/2021 the bill was referred to the committees on Transportation, Natural Resources and Water and Environmental Quality, and then the referral to Environmental Quality was rescinded due to Covid.

so, guess it will make it's way through the Transportation and Natural Resources Committees and is stalled right now regarding the Environmental Quality committee? :dunno

Referred to Coms. on TRANS, N.R. & W., and EQ.
Referral to Com. on E.Q. rescinded because of the limitations placed on committee hearings due to ongoing health and safety risks of the COVID-19 virus.

as the bill makes progress through the required committees, we should be updated on the Leginfo.gov website, though ...

reading it is a bipartisan bill again this year which is good.

the bad is it looks like SB 1024 died last year in the Appropriations Committee:

According to the Assembly Appropriations Committee:

1) One-time costs (special fund) of approximately $450,000 to CARB to develop and adopt its regulation prescribing when competition OHVs may operate on public lands to practice for sanctioned competition events. CARB's work will include surveying OHV owners regarding usage, comparing data with DMV registration data, and analyzing data.

2) One-time costs to DMV of an unknown but significant amount, likely in the range of $50,000 to $150,000, to determine the amount of fee revenue needed, and the corresponding perregistrant fee, to allow DMV to recoup its costs to establish the registration program.

3) Minor one-time costs, in the tens of thousands of dollars, to DMV, Parks and CARB to gather data and report to the Legislature.

4) DMV will realize one-time revenues of an unknown, but likely significant amount, necessary to cover DMV's costs to establish the registration program, consistent with DMV's determination described in #2 above.

It could be that DMV determines that it will recover the entirety of its costs to establish the registration program from revenue from the $126 special fee and, therefore, the dollar amount to be collected, in addition to the $126 special fee, is $0.

This seems unlikely, however, as, collectively, DMV, Parks, and CARB project between approximately 371 and 1,485 noncompliant competition vehicles will register each year, which this analysis calculates as generating between roughly $47,000 and $187,000 in annual revenue.

Previously, the administrative agencies projected the registration program to generate $3.2 million in annual revenue and DMV, understandably, expressed confidence it could recover its costs to establish the registration program from the special fee base amount, with a large amount of fee revenue available for Park's OHV program.

Given the administrative agencies' significantly diminished revenue projection, it is reasonable to assume DMV will not recover its initial costs from the $126 base special fee and, therefore, will need to impose an additional fee of some unknown amount.

maybe Butch or elemental can shed some light? Hopefully, Sen Jones is loaded for bear this year, wrt his new bill's fiscal impact ... sounds like there will have to be more expensive fees for we plebes? :ride

reading SB 1024, you can see where it was amended to include a fee of $126 (which turned out not to be high enough). SB 227 does not look like it has addressed that fee, yet, and I imagine we'll see a higher fee added by amendment as 2021 goes by ...?

anyway, idk ... :blah

 

[OaklandF4i]

Yep, good points Luke, and you are correct according to my understanding. I will clarify my original post about red/green through 2025. No two strokes sold after Model Year 2021. 2021 Model Year and older two and fourstrokes red sticker continued until 2025. In 2025 all bikes Model Year 2021 and older considered green as rules stand without legislative change.

Will also clarify the difference between titling and registering. Competition fourstrokes can be titled after 2021, but would not get registered/sticker of any sort to be ridden on public lands. So you could legally buy a competition fourstroke and get a CA title to own and ride on private land, but it would not be registered to ride on public lands.

Prairie City experience for the Trials Event could be another back door way to eliminate competitions on public lands, closed course or not. That's something I fear could be made policy without elected legislative action by an anti OHV district manager, and we kidding ourselves if we don't believe there are some. Many are very good, not all. Don't want to derail this thread with that or my tinfoil hat conspiracy worries. :laughing

Will edit post later tonight to include clarification tonight.

 

[banshee01]

I don't believe they are separating 2 stroke and 4 stroke red stickers. I have never read anything that said they are banning 2 strokes. You will still be able to buy a 2 stroke just no reg sticker.


Maybe they have changed something

I have read carb say they are not banning 2 strokes. With the new FI 2 strokes I bet they figure out how to get them to safely pass green sticker emissions. I mean if they can plate a 500 I hope they can green sticker a FI 2 stroke. Yeaj you will have to buy it then buy a aftermarket ECU.

I think ultimately electrics are the future. If Newsomes ban on ICU including OHV in 2035 happens.

 

[banshee01]

There was a lot in sb1024 that I didnt care for. Gonna read through this new one to see what's up

 

[OaklandF4i]

Edited first post to include Lukes comments. Please let me know if I got it right. :thumbup

:thumbup

here's the Leginfo.gov link, where us regular folks can try to follow the process/progress of the state Senator Jones's 2021 version of the bill, and read the text of the 2021 bill:
SB-227 Off-highway vehicles.(2021-2022)

On 1/28/2021 the bill was referred to the committees on Transportation, Natural Resources and Water and Environmental Quality, and then the referral to Environmental Quality was rescinded due to Covid.

so, guess it will make it's way through the Transportation and Natural Resources Committees and is stalled right now regarding the Environmental Quality committee? :dunno



as the bill makes progress through the required committees, we should be updated on the Leginfo.gov website, though ...

reading it is a bipartisan bill again this year which is good.

the bad is it looks like SB 1024 died last year in the Appropriations Committee:



maybe Butch or elemental can shed some light? Hopefully, Sen Jones is loaded for bear this year, wrt his new bill's fiscal impact ... sounds like there will have to be more expensive fees for we plebes? :ride

reading SB 1024, you can see where it was amended to include a fee of $126 (which turned out not to be high enough). SB 227 does not look like it has addressed that fee, yet, and I imagine we'll see a higher fee added by amendment as 2021 goes by ...?

anyway, idk ... :blah

Interesting the figures projected for the first year of registrations.

First of all, if those figures for registrations is correct (371-1,485), that's not a lot competition or non emission compliant dirt bikes being sold. Should be a wake up call for our members in the community who think we are this massive industry too big fail or legislate out of existence. We are not. This isn't the 70's or even 80's anymore.

Or.... putting my tin foil hat on, someone is purposely underestimating the registrations to undermine the bill.

Second, I'd love to have the scientific ability (I don't) to extrapolate from those registration figures a pollution impact model against Carb's figures used to justify their decisions. These are pretty small numbers of vehicles they are talking about. A weekend of folks driving from SF or LA to the mtns skiing probably has higher impact on any given weekend. Could be wrong, and that's just me being skeptical of Carb. Does nothing to solve our problem.

I disagree with the DMV's analysis of, or at their method to recover the expenditure. This expenditure should be spread out across all OHV registrations, which according to Carb is like a 1/2 million or more. Cough... back to my previous paragraphs comment.

John, would you mind keeping us updated on the bills progress? I'm aware of the website to track bills, but you are much better educated and trained to read and communicate where it is the process. The children's song "I'm just a bill on capital hill" is my only formal training. :laughing

I don't believe they are separating 2 stroke and 4 stroke red stickers. I have never read anything that said they are banning 2 strokes. You will still be able to buy a 2 stroke just no reg sticker.


Maybe they have changed something

I have read carb say they are not banning 2 strokes. With the new FI 2 strokes I bet they figure out how to get them to safely pass green sticker emissions. I mean if they can plate a 500 I hope they can green sticker a FI 2 stroke. Yeaj you will have to buy it then buy a aftermarket ECU.

I think ultimately electrics are the future. If Newsomes ban on ICU including OHV in 2035 happens.

:thumbup good comments. I'd hope, but reality is even the TPI two strokes are very dirty compared to fuel injected KTM 250 SX-F four stroke Red Sticker bike. I don't think KTM can make the TPI clean enough.

So back to Carb is banning two stroke according to everything I have heard and read. No current manufacturer has a two stroke in production that will be clean enough, including KTM's TPI. The technology they are alluding to is direct injection like we see on outboards and some snow mobiles. Which I'm not sure will even meet future levels California is expecting. No motorcycle has it (direct injection) and no company is even doing R&D on it currently that I am aware of.

That's just their cop out way of saying they really aren't banning them when they in fact they are. Cynical yes, but they are very aware of the technology differences and the practical ability to bring one out on a two stroke production dirt bike. It is a ban by any other means in my opinion/understanding. Will obviously edit first post if shown otherwise.

I'm by no means an expert, just expressing what I strongly believe from I understand. Could be making a mistake or not understand and if so.....

I'll be happy to eat my hat for the good of all dirt bikers :laughing

If you find something that says other wise, please share. Not to argue, but I'm open to reading more to learn everything I can and hoping I am wrong. Take all my statements as I believe, think, understand, or its my opinion. By no means do I know or am an expert on any of this. Just discussing my understanding thus far.

 

[SFMCjohn]

John, would you mind keeping us updated on the bills progress?

sure, I'll keep an eye on it ... should be interesting. :thumbup

 

[elemetal]

I could be wrong about how I understand the new CARB law but remember reading it when they were putting it out for public opinion. I locked in my head that I needed a new bike in 2021 as it would be the last new 2t I could get.

First of all, if those figures for registrations is correct (371-1,485), that's not a lot competition or non emission compliant dirt bikes being sold.

For a state of 40 million people those numbers sound woefully low...If each dealer in the state sold 5 red sticker bikes all year the numbers would be 10's of thousands. Hard to believe anyone could think that small sales number would support the OHV system....

The other part of this whole thing is public image. With climate change taking on new (and rightful) importance, there will be shame in warming up a massively smoking 2t, just one more bad looking optic. Hopefully they get electric battery life up to a point where that change will level the playing field again. The new EM Race has a gear box linked to the motor and a.....CLUTCH! Once that format catches on people will be more excited about electric (I am) and we can go back to erosion control.

There is a huge push to get people out on Ebikes rather than in cars. If that market continues to develop it will have a huge influence on what we see in the dirty world. We will likely see many more e mountain bikes on the trails we normally ride as they allow people to get out on them. Change is coming for sure, hopefully my 2019 will last until a suitable electric is available....

 

[m0t0_ryder]

Man, I am sure glad all my bikes are plated.
Also... This is a CA law.
Hopefully other states don't join in on the bans.

Born and (mostly) raised in CA but if this state starts banning my major life's pleasures... I'll move!

 

[usedtobefast]

So it sounds like they are banning 2 strokes on private land too? Kind of like banning 2 stroke weed eater sales in CA?

I can understand the inability to register a 2 stroke in 2022 onward, and can't ride on public lands ... but to not allow a 2 stroke to even be sold in California?

Right now, if you show up at Club Moto, do they check registration stickers? I'm thinking not. (just an example of a private riding area vs public lands)

 

[OaklandF4i]

I could be wrong about how I understand the new CARB law but remember reading it when they were putting it out for public opinion. I locked in my head that I needed a new bike in 2021 as it would be the last new 2t I could get.




For a state of 40 million people those numbers sound woefully low...If each dealer in the state sold 5 red sticker bikes all year the numbers would be 10's of thousands. Hard to believe anyone could think that small sales number would support the OHV system....

The other part of this whole thing is public image. With climate change taking on new (and rightful) importance, there will be shame in warming up a massively smoking 2t, just one more bad looking optic. Hopefully they get electric battery life up to a point where that change will level the playing field again. The new EM Race has a gear box linked to the motor and a.....CLUTCH! Once that format catches on people will be more excited about electric (I am) and we can go back to erosion control.

There is a huge push to get people out on Ebikes rather than in cars. If that market continues to develop it will have a huge influence on what we see in the dirty world. We will likely see many more e mountain bikes on the trails we normally ride as they allow people to get out on them. Change is coming for sure, hopefully my 2019 will last until a suitable electric is available....

I have the same understanding as you regarding two stroke sales after Model Year 2021. I could be wrong, and if so, would be open for someone to correct me.

I thought those registration numbers were low too. But I also would be surprised if the numbers were only a few thousand a year. Somebody at the DMV could be also low balling those estimates to purposely make an arguement that the program won't pay for itself.... Regardless, the best practice would be to spread fee accross all OHV registrations and there would be no argument to be made about it paying for itself.

So it sounds like they are banning 2 strokes on private land too? Kind of like banning 2 stroke weed eater sales in CA?

I can understand the inability to register a 2 stroke in 2022 onward, and can't ride on public lands ... but to not allow a 2 stroke to even be sold in California?

Right now, if you show up at Club Moto, do they check registration stickers? I'm thinking not. (just an example of a private riding area vs public lands)

Considering a new 2021 Gas Gas 300 this year, as it will be the last I'll ever be able to ride.

Not climate or pollution denier, I do readily admit my two stroke bike is dirty, but I'm also conscience of my overall carbon impact and take steps to mitigate it. That impact is smaller than the average or many Californians.

Ebikes are probably the future, but the future isnt here. No ebike can come close to doing our 4 hr midweek loop. I'll trade in my ice powered bikes when they can actually be reasonably useful for my purposes.

 

[OaklandF4i]

Man, I am sure glad all my bikes are plated.
Also... This is a CA law.
Hopefully other states don't join in on the bans.

Born and (mostly) raised in CA but if this state starts banning my major life's pleasures... I'll move!

I'll join you John. It would be painful and truly sad, but I'd join you.

 

[Rudeojr]

wow great update and write up though it makes me sad that the play bikes are included which means no new young riders to enter the sport.

 

[Pmd220]

wow great update and write up though it makes me sad that the play bikes are included which means no new young riders to enter the sport.

Yep, my son just raced Bear Mt. Hare Scramble this weekend and his 50c 4-6 year old field had 45 riders! Most of which are on Ktm smokers. Pretty sad to see that level of interest with these new regulations coming. There will be ways around it but it seems punitive to me as well.

Hopefully the ebikes come along quickly. I for one will miss the days of smokers and thankful that my son can enjoy some of them as well!

 

[SVJ]

If this isn’t reaping what you sow, I don’t know what is. All of these people that Californians have been voting for have been pushing this for decades. No ground has been gained for OHV, only some minor “victories” in sacrificing less than the the policy makers ask for. Too late to wake up now.

I was born and raised here as my parents and theirs were... but this is no longer my home. Too bad I wasn’t born into one of those families with 1000s of acres to play with. I plan to cash out and leave as soon as possible. Enjoy your homeless camps and electric bikes. I’m sure Carnegie and Hollister will be great hiking destinations.

 

[usedtobefast]

It does feel like the emissions angle is being used as a way to get rid of dirt bikes.

Be interesting to know how many CARB employees ride motorcycles. Guessing it is a very very small number.

 

[Dmitriy]

....dirt bikes....

The main reason is probably right there. To most people the word dirt alone has negative connotations. Really easy to vote ban something like that. Compare to say Off-Highway Recreation Vehicle....

Just saying.

But yeah they are trying to have a cake their way and eat it too. I think if they state such low registration numbers then we need hammer them on overall environmental impact. (Unfortunately the ship has left the dock and is sailing away I fear)

 

[SVJ]

The main reason is probably right there. To most people the word dirt alone has negative connotations. Really easy to vote ban something like that. Compare to say Off-Highway Recreation Vehicle....

Just saying.

But yeah they are trying to have a cake their way and eat it too. I think if they state such low registration numbers then we need hammer them on overall environmental impact. (Unfortunately the ship has left the dock and is sailing away I fear)

It’s even crazier to think about when you see every weekend piles of trucks loaded to the gills with “off highway vehicles “ costing tens of thousands of dollars... not to mention the massive amount of sxs that seem to be everywhere now, all forced to compete for fewer and fewer trails, putting more pressure and damage on them, giving more fuel to the people claiming they cause damage...
Maybe they’ve all become jaded like me?
I saw the writing on the wall, it’s like flying through the air with the front wheel down and bouncing off the limiter- nice try, but you’re still going over the bars. I still write letters every once in a while, but not much anymore.I have respect for you all that keep fighting, but they’ve beat it out of me.