Blipping the throttle while downshifting

[Enchanter]

In my CMSP course they taught that you should let out the clutch with 4 fingers slowly in order to downshift. But I am finding that in some situations, no matter how slowly I roll it out, I'm occasionally being jerked forward by a downshift.

I've seen more advanced riders "blip" the throttle to downshift smoothly, where they quickly roll on the throttle, change gears, and roll back off, but doing this is difficult because I often wind up speeding up...

Do any experienced riders on here have any tips to help a newbie learn this technique (and/or just downshift more smoothly in general...)?

First, if you are experiencing this mostly when you downshift from 2nd to 1st gear, that is pretty common for almost everyone. It is rather challenging to get that done smoothly. Doing that smoothly will come with time.

As a newer rider it is almost guaranteed that you are easing out the clutch more quickly than more experienced riders. So yes, you need to continue to work on that.

Rather than trying to blip the throttle, try this instead: After the downshift and as you ease out the clutch, roll on the throttle a small amount. This can smooth it out a bit. If it causes you to accelerate, then you rolled on too much.

Try it, and come back to let us know how you've progressed.

 

[budman]

Good point on shifting from 2nd to 1st.

Rarely rev match for that.

 

[Aware]

As a newer rider it is almost guaranteed that you are easing out the clutch more quickly than more experienced riders.

I'm willing to bet the opposite is true. When I rev match, I'm literally aiming to match the revs to the correct speed for the new gear. Easing out the clutch is the last thing on my mind, and I would expect my shifting to not be smooth at all because revs would almost never be matched. Thus is why clutchless downshifts can become easy (not recommended because that really is advanced) and preferred at ordinary road pace, because the whole shifting sequence can be that fast, with or without using the clutch.

I realize that many are going to yell "slow down with the advanced stuff", but I think we are giving misleading instructions in some cases by describing a quite different sequence of events that have a different outcome. I think it is reasonable to explain what we are aiming for, whilst also giving baby-steps instructions.

 

[Blankpage]

Have I been doing it wrong all my life. I actually don't know what I do because I don't give it any thought. Would be like asking me how do I walk.

 

[denhaus]

Practice without braking. Too much going on there.

Just let the bike decelerate a bit (back off the gas).
Pull in clutch
Blip throttle. (if higher in the RPM a bigger blip is required to match the new higher RPM expected when the lower gear is engaged)
Downshift and quickly let the clutch out. If the RPMs match you won't feel that jerk or additional slowing than just decelerating.

Learning how much blip is needed is a factor of feeling the RPM (experience really).

For practicing try keeping the speed you decelerate a constant and just trying different amounts. (Don't blip before the clutch is in).

When you get it right the motor will feel the same RPM and won't rev up. You don't have to down shift and let the clutch out super fast when practicing. Work up to that.

When RPMs are higher as you begin deceleration then the blip will be bigger.

That is why racers tend to have bigger blips.. Wackaaaaa.... Wackaaaa.. going through several downshifts. The goal being the bikes forks are not going up or down... they stay the same basically.

When out riding do the clutch / blip /down shift before needing to brake.

Once you get better at the whole thing adding brakes into the equation is easier than trying to learn it all at once.

Thanks, this is really helpful. Now time to find a nice long road or a big old parking lot...

 

[denhaus]

I'm willing to bet the opposite is true. When I rev match, I'm literally aiming to match the revs to the correct speed for the new gear. Easing out the clutch is the last thing on my mind, and I would expect my shifting to not be smooth at all because revs would almost never be matched. Thus is why clutchless downshifts can become easy (not recommended because that really is advanced) and preferred at ordinary road pace, because the whole shifting sequence can be that fast, with or without using the clutch.

I realize that many are going to yell "slow down with the advanced stuff", but I think we are giving misleading instructions in some cases by describing a quite different sequence of events that have a different outcome. I think it is reasonable to explain what we are aiming for, whilst also giving baby-steps instructions.

Thanks, I appreciate this kind of perspective. I want to learn advanced stuff eventually, so the sooner I can start understanding it, the better, as long as I don't get too aggressive/dangerous in learning it, while maintaining + improving the basics.

 

[HadesOmega]

I double clutch all the time, even on my electric bike (but it feels weird)

Basically you clutch in, downshift, blip the throttle to where you think the revs will match, then release the clutch. If you did it right you won't feel a jerk. You can even go down two instead of one or like a heel and toe do it while braking.

 

[dravnx]

I double clutch all the time, even on my electric bike (but it feels weird)

Basically you clutch in, downshift, blip the throttle to where you think the revs will match, then release the clutch. If you did it right you won't feel a jerk. You can even go down two instead of one or like a heel and toe do it while braking.

Tha'ts basic rev matching, not double clutching. Double clutching is used with non synchro transmissions.

 

[002]

Although obvious to most people, especially those that drive manual cars spiritedly, stating the reason why this happens might help a beginner figure this out. I don't consider this an advance skill at all and more like a safety requirement if you ride something like an SV650 with strong engine breaking.

Forget "blipping", "feel" and clutch speed for minute and consider this. There is a direct and constant connection between Gear selection, engine RPM and road speed. The same way that for a constant road speed the engine RPM will drop as you move up the gears, the opposite is true as you go down the gears. As you go down a gear, either the engine RPM is increasing or the road speed is slowing down. You'll notice the "slowing down" as a quick, jerking deceleration at best. At worst it'll lock up the rear in a low traction situation and put you down. So all you have to do is figure out how much RPM you need.

It won't be MotoGP magic, but all you need to do to learn this is;

1) Pull in the clutch and hold it.
2) Rev up the RPM to something higher than what it was before pulling the clutch. And HOLD it there, no blipping yet.
3) Down shift a gear.
4) Let the clutch out reasonably smoothly.

That's it. If you found the magic RPM, it'll be smooth as butter.
Not enough RPM and it'll slow the bike down with less of a jerk.
Too much RPM and you'll speed up a little bit, but you can easily roll off the throttle.
WAY too much RPM and dropping the clutch... Congratulations, YutUgh you're doing a wheelie!

Once this all clicks, you'll start doing it faster with less clutch travel and quick blip of the throttle.

 

[Whammy]

Lots of good advice from some seasoned barfers and racer types.
I started blipping many,many moons ago to ease the clunky downshifts.
Until recently I've never had a bike with a slipper clutch.,so learning how to do it correctly was key.
Practice practice practice. I used to try to think about what I needed to do before hand (color by numbers technique).
It didn't work well for me. I don't know when I stopped doing that but when I did things went much easier.
I just did it without thinking.
It just takes practice.
I'll leave the slipper one alone, even though I have another bike with one,
The nature of the bike itself is why it has one stock from the factory.
It's a totally different beast altogether.

 

[The Villain]

This issue comes up constantly in every forum I've ever belonged to. Basically, rev matching (blipping) is good and, IMHO, a necessary skill to learn for riding OR driving a manual transmission car.

The OP has had 4 months to work on it at this point so I'm curious to hear how they've progressed.

While I agree that practicing this while coasting down (not braking) is helpful when learning, the technique really becomes most useful when riding at speed, which means blipping WHILE braking.

The thing that's helped me most with the hand contortions is a tip from Nick Ienatsch to use the tips (pads) of the fingers to pull the brake lever, which allows some slack in the bent finger so you don't yank the lever further in when turning the throttle. This took some time for me to get used to (also switched to single, middle-finger braking at the same time) but is WAY easier for my short fingers.

 

[Holeshot]

I'd suggest first, mastering how to match feeding the clutch in and braking hard; matching those two items up. Feathering the clutch on a downshift is an old school slipper clutch.

When you get to blipping, the first downshift is of the most important and should happen the second you close the throttle, using the RPM's (high) you've gained down the straight to rev match your first gear shift. I use the inside circle of my thumb/ forefinger to manipulate the throttle as that's the smallest portion of my palm that won't cause me to jerk the brake lever when I move my hand. YMMV.

I've been practicing getting away from rev matching on downshifts under instruction from Zemke and it's allowed me to compress my braking zones. Given the slipper clutch in modern bikes and my ability to slip the clutch, the benefits to rev matching are outweighed. Still, it's fun to rev match and a hard habit to break.