accepting is one thing, but how it happened is another

[nine_inch_rear]

Had my first mishap at the end of December. I trusted within myself that solo accidents dont happen if your careful. WRONG. I was arrogant in thinking that frame of mind. I was on a road that i know well, yet known for its carnage of vehicles. Day was bright and sunny, and not all that cold out (about noon). Riding the posted speed, enter a right hand turn, non agressively, accelerate out of the turn, and bam. Front tire washed out. Landed on the right side of the road, on my right side. Trip to the ER for CT scan and x-rays. Everything ok, but the pain from soft tissue was beyond words. My shoulder still isnt all there yet. I asked many fellow riders (i was riding alone at the time, not a group) of what may have happened. All of them said that my tire hit something. Silt, oil patch, etc. I looked at the tire yesterday to confirm my lean angle. The mark was to the side, just off center. What is harsh right now is that the unknown haunts me. I didnt see the problem before it happened. As if someone threw a bar right through my front spokes. It was over before i knew what happend. Right now Iam still not sure if iam mentally able to get back on. Seems with time, my "want" to ride again is increasing. Friends that ride say get back on, small steps. To ride is to fall, yet your in worse shape if you dont evaluate what happend, and look how to improve.
What can I improve upon?
1. I will ride in the summer months- as suggested by a couple of friends. Roads are in better shape and extra warmth will help tire grip (to a certain extent obviously)
2. Even though I knew the road, from now on, i will chop my speed to a relaxing pace. Hard to do with a motard!
3. Perhaps invest in a cam so if iam on a ride i can evaluate any issues
4. Pick roads that are more forgiving (I was on calaveris- yeah, i know)
5. Iam open to any suggestions from others even if its constructive critisism

 

[HondaFreak]

Sorry to hear about your fall.

So, sunny day, crap in the road you MAY have visually missed. Though I really have to ask if your riding those nobby motard tires?
1-Missed stuff in the road.
2-Tires with poor road contact, and a smaller traction area.

I ride in the rain hitting puddles, crosswalk lines, manhole covers. Never bit it. Food for thought.

Christian

 

[Holeshot]

Alot of people tend to miss the idea of weight transfer on corner exits as well. if you're still turning and accelerating (not giving up lean angle/ steering), you're unweighting the front tire and expecting it to still steer the bike. There are rare times when the front will be "pushed" by the rear into a slide...

 

[nine_inch_rear]

Hondafreak
The tires were the original dunlops motard tires. Some people dont like them, but overal i feel its an ok tire. After the mishap I did put the continental contiforce on the rear though since i was down to the wear bars.
Holeshot:
I dont remember what was going on while the accident was happening- i hit my head. But i do remember the front end sliding out, and perhaps i did unload the front too much since i was comming out of a turn.

 

[Trumper]

I know of about 4 episodes this winter of fairly experienced riders describing exactly what happened to you. Rolling along, nothing radical, slight turn or lean, blammo, front gone and down.

In all cases, I trust the experience of the riders. Three of them were group crashes so peeps had plenty of time to examine tires, inspect the road, talk about what happened, etc. Consensus was that the road was unusually slimey/slick...and that even medium input caused an instant washout.

My .02 on this is that the roads are slimey and unpredictable after rain. That is, during a rain and immediately after they are fine. But 2, 3, 4, even 5 days later in shady damp spots under trees they start to slime up in places. It's kinda unpredictable...and not super common, but it does happen in a few places every year (84 above La Honda, lower Alpine, lower Bonny Dune, etc.)

FWIW anyway....

 

[kevincbr47]

dude, i hear you man...its one thing to be riding stupid and get in an accident and know "ok the next time i ride obviously im gonna be more carefull and not turn so sharp in the rain, hit my breaks so hard etc.:" but riding safe and still going down is a whole nother story. you question yourself because you didnt do anything wrong.

best advice i can give is to let it go, if you love riding dont let one mishap deter you. however learn from it and realize in riding sometimes these things happen

best of luck man!:cool

 

[Espumoso]

I can empathize with your plight. On Jan 1, I had a similar experience and the uncertainty about what actually happened--and how I might remedy the problem in the future--is still bothering me.

I was on panoramic, heavy traffic, pulled out to pass, but decided to do the responsible thing--slow down and pull back into traffic. I applied the brakes and the next thing I knew I heard my shoulder break and found myself sliding in the oncoming lane. The bars slammed to the right and the bike practically highsided to the left.

Did I brake on something? Did I apply the brakes on a bot dot? I don't know and that still concerns me. I knew my front rotors were at the spec and had some runout, but I can't blame it on mechanics. I know I contributed to the accident, I just don't know exactly how.

Enough about my accident. In order to assuage the mechanical fears, I replaced rotors, bearings, headset bearings, etc and I'm back on the bike. It feels good. I really missed it. Getting back in the saddle was a huge step and I did it as soon as the bone healed and the soft tissue felt that it wouldn't affect my ability to control the bike. However, we rode up in Marin on Saturday and I rode panoramic where I crashed (4 times at night, but that's another story). It did freak me out and I hope that feeling of not being confident fades with time. I took it slowly... very slowly.

Since I don't know *exactly* what caused the wreck, I've decided to focus on the likely possibilities. Mechanical (brakes, bearings, etc). Really being aware of brake application. Am I grabbing more brake than I need to? Am I applying it smoothly? Is my braking appropriate for the immediate road surface and the expected condition (time of year, shade, moss, etc.)

After all that my 0.02 would be to get back in the saddle since your "want" is still there and is "increasing"... just don't expect to be anywhere near 100% since your mind isn't there yet. Use this time to carefully analyze your riding techniques, especially as they relate to the probable causes of your accident.

 

[Don Tuite]

Follow your instincts. I had a similar experience and decided to take up sailing. (Turns out there are many more ways to kill yourself on a sailboat than on a motorcycle, but that's another story.) Did that and some other stuff for 25 years until a couple of years ago I was looking at a friend's bike and thought, "I should get one of those," and I did.

If you live many years and stay out of prison you'll have time to do a lot of different things.

Don

 

[VTRZA]

sometimes you can get weird ones like that,my last one was kinda the same except speed was also a factor as I was going too fast to inspect the road surface in front of me at night. I wouldn' sweat it too much. Maybe just take your time to get back up to speed again

 

[Mad Gnome]

Doc Wong's got a great wet riding scession. One thing I took away from that was that riding posistion and weight distribution can be key to staying on and keeping rubber side down when the tires slide. Everyone has had a time when that fates conspire against you though... were you actively moving your weight or just goin with the bike?

 

[nine_inch_rear]

Doc Wong's got a great wet riding scession. One thing I took away from that was that riding posistion and weight distribution can be key to staying on and keeping rubber side down when the tires slide. Everyone has had a time when that fates conspire against you though... were you actively moving your weight or just goin with the bike?

I do move my weight as needed. The motard is a great bike to understand weight transfer, and how your body influences better handling. From what i recall it was a normal exit on a regular turn. Something you do hundreds of times in a day of riding. The part of no return was instant. Just like getting hit over the head with a bat from behind. I didnt get a fore warning where the tire gets that lose feel where you can correct, or ease up. Thanks for everyones input. Helps to put things into perspective.

 

[slydrite]

Though I really have to ask if your riding those nobby motard tires?
2-Tires with poor road contact, and a smaller traction area.

Dear Confused,

motard tires are not 'nobby' or even knobbies.....what makes a dual sport or dirt bike a motard is the use of 17" wheels with similar or exactly the same tires as used on convential sprotbiles

 

[clueless]

Inspect the bitumen at crash site

Inspect the bitumen at crash site.
Go back and rub your hand across the asphalt. You'll feel it.

Some parts of Calaveras were made with round river pebbles for fill instead of rough-edged gravel.
How do I know - glad you asked.
On a mod-paced ride last autumn around a sweeping long right-hander (going south) the first rider (Ben) slid his front, my bike "tipped", and rider behind slid his rear - on a dry day, nothing visible on road, at C pace. We U-turned and really REALLY wanted to know just WTF happened. The road felt smooth and "soft" to the touch, very polished, not that normal "grippy" feeling.

Might have been made worse due to cars drifting around some parts of Calaveras - noted any tire marks from drifting ?

My 2c.

Added: Near marker for 7.something miles

 

[rritterson]

You were at the wear bars? How old were the tires? My old tires (Dunlop Qualifiers) had gotten so hard that they started to lose grip even though I wasn't even at the wear lines yet. Almost lost it at 20mph accelerating on a curved on ramp.

 

[nine_inch_rear]

You were at the wear bars? How old were the tires? My old tires (Dunlop Qualifiers) had gotten so hard that they started to lose grip even though I wasn't even at the wear lines yet. Almost lost it at 20mph accelerating on a curved on ramp.

The rear tire in the center was showing the wear bars, so yes, it was time to replace. Still though, i rode the bike very often, and was stored in the garage- tires stayed soft. The tires seem to be just as "gummy" as when i first got the bike. The front rubber is still gummy also. Although probably still has another thousand or so left on it. Perhaps i should change it like the rear to put my mind at ease.

 

[nine_inch_rear]

Re: Inspect the bitumen at crash site

Inspect the bitumen at crash site.
Go back and rub your hand across the asphalt. You'll feel it.

Some parts of Calaveras were made with round river pebbles for fill instead of rough-edged gravel.
How do I know - glad you asked.
On a mod-paced ride last autumn around a sweeping long right-hander (going south) the first rider (Ben) slid his front, my bike "tipped", and rider behind slid his rear - on a dry day, nothing visible on road, at C pace. We U-turned and really REALLY wanted to know just WTF happened. The road felt smooth and "soft" to the touch, very polished, not that normal "grippy" feeling.

Might have been made worse due to cars drifting around some parts of Calaveras - noted any tire marks from drifting ?

My 2c.

Added: Near marker for 7.something miles

I would have deff gone back to check things out, but was just too sore to move much. Not sure exactly what mile marker it was, but it happend toward the milpitas side where the turns are open through those rolling unshaded hills. Didnt notice any drifting marks either. Maybe I should go back and look, but knowing i wasnt riding like a tool and "shit happends theory" comes to play makes me feel better. I did all i could, gravity won, and my gear saved my ass.

 

[OldMadBrit]

....... Still though, i rode the bike very often, and was stored in the garage- tires stayed soft...........

FWIW, modern tires go hard from heat cycles not from where they are stored or even how many miles. Each ride no matter how short = 1 heat cycle. A barely worn front can be over cycled by the time the rear is replaced. With synthetic mixes it can be really hard to tell how grippy a tire will be when its hot from how it feels when cold.

I have tossed countless sets of 1/4 worn tires on my track car because they were heat cycled to the grip of "wet steel".

I feel your pain on the shock of going down when you were not pushing the envelope. I smashed myself to bits on my mountain bike 3 years ago taking it easy on a trail I had ridden 100's of times before (so months of rehab later I get a moto ha ha).

We humans are not very good at dealing with not knowing why a traumatic event occured.

 

[nine_inch_rear]

QUOTE]Originally posted by OldMadBrit
FWIW, modern tires go hard from heat cycles not from where they are stored or even how many miles. Each ride no matter how short = 1 heat cycle. A barely worn front can be over cycled by the time the rear is replaced. With synthetic mixes it can be really hard to tell how grippy a tire will be when its hot from how it feels when cold.

Good info, i didnt realize that. As a service tech in the automotive world, iam used to seeing a "retail" tire lasting through out its tread life, except for cord separation.
Is there a rule of thumb how to check a tire for grip by touching it? Usually i look for that "eraser" feel on my thumb when rubbing it.

 

[OldMadBrit]

Is there a rule of thumb how to check a tire for grip by touching it? Usually i look for that "eraser" feel on my thumb when rubbing it. [/B]

I see your mistake, most non-sporty OEM car tires can barely hold 0.85g and are hard as hell so that they last forever.

For high perfromance tires (bike or car) you need to check hardness when hot. (note: hardness is an approximate indicator for grip). The tread surface on a hot tire should be soft enough that you could scrape a good sized chunk out with your finger nail. Not that you need to do that - but that's how soft they should be at full temp.

Sticky tires should be just that - sticky. They are using adhesion rather than friction to obtain the higher levels of grip.

 

[scalvert]

Sorry you got bit. I don't really have anything to add about why you went down, the likely suspects have all been covered. This sort of thing just happens sometimes. A large part of why I started track riding and racing was to get an edge on my street riding. I figured that if I learned to deal with pushing front tires at 100 mph on the track that I'd have a better chance dealing with the random freak shit that happens during 50k or 100k miles of street riding. In many ways the stakes are higher on the street than the track, I'm happy to have all the skil on my side I can develop.

Heal up well!