Wanted: Advice for a dad teaching his son to ride dirt...

usndocjaysin

Well-known member
Sooo... My son is 5 and has a jr50. Recently took the training wheels off and took him to Argyll. He's been twice now and every one says that he seems to be doing good for his first couple times at the track. First time just stayed on the little one by the gate and second time spent most of the day on the little and towards the end went to the one in the back that's a little more advanced. He did good but the track was empty so there was no other riders for him to worry about. On that same day I gave him a little more throttle and he seem to handle it well. Granted its only his second time on a track I feel as if though he's doing pretty well. He wears full gear and he knows to be careful around other riders and not to pass on turns (until he gets better), slow down before a turn then accelerate out (I tell him "slow then go"). Now that he tasted the "big boy track" he said he wants to do it all the time. I told him only if there's not a lot of other riders on because he still needs to practice and we need to be safe. I don't want to hold him back though... Sooo long story short what can I do to help my son become a safe and better rider? Drills, things to say in a way he'll understand, etc... Any and all help is appreciated. I might add I have limited knowledge in dirt riding for I've mostly rode street and have rode dirt a handful of times.
 

byke

Well-known member
Most important thing to burn into his little brain, imo, is to hold his line and never try to get out of anyone's way. Next would be to teach him about picking a line and sticking with it, at least for that lap, and not to be swerving all over the place.

Is the throttle stop working okay? I found that it didn't really work like I expected. With it in, the bike will go just as fast, speed wise, but it takes a little longer to get there and makes it hard to climb any type of hill/mound/jump. My daughter could barely make it up one of the jumps on that back track and she did so much better with the throttle stop removed.
 

usndocjaysin

Well-known member
Yeah dude it was a trip... First time he couldn't get around that single banked turn (hats closet to when to first drive in by the water pump refill spot not the two close to the bleachers/check in spot) I let him try for about 30 minutes and he'd get it some time then wreck... He started to get frustrated so I told and showed him that if he started a little wider he'd have more room to turn. He did what I said and it worked! He got it! He listened and understood. I kinda hit on "lines" but didn't really know of a good way to explain it to him in a way he might understand. I'm thinking if I draw a picture for him and show him that way he might be able to get it. So keep your line and and not worry about others huh? That sounds about right but I still want him to be mindful of what's in front of him and be able to avoid hazards. Another thing I caught him doing was looking behind him self when there was other riders on the track. I told him to look forward and never back because if you look back you can't see what's in front of you and he might wreck. He said the other rider was chasing him and he didn't want to get caught... Lol I told him it wasn't a race and we're practicing. Worry about where you're going and not what the other people are doing. Yeah... That nerf screw seemed to be either go or slow... His is stock and seems to handle the inclines fine. It almost seems a little too fast when removed... Maybe that's the dad in me talking though...
 

planegray

Redwood Original
Staff member
.......... I feel as if though he's doing pretty well. .......................


And herein lies the problem, you (and I) don't really know what "doing well" is for a newbie rider... much less a kid.

I introduced 4 beginners to dirt biking and had a mixed results;

Then I saw a msf professional ( Linda, racerX) show a newbie the ropes. OMG, it was a thing of beauty. Her approach was preplanned, had certain checkpoints, and had the right emphasis on the right things.

Sooo.. my advice would be to seek out a professional, either msf or some local riding school.
 

usndocjaysin

Well-known member
And herein lies the problem, you (and I) don't really know what "doing well" is for a newbie rider... much less a kid.

I introduced 4 beginners to dirt biking and had a mixed results;

Then I saw a msf professional ( Linda, racerX) show a newbie the ropes. OMG, it was a thing of beauty. Her approach was preplanned, had certain checkpoints, and had the right emphasis on the right things.

Sooo.. my advice would be to seek out a professional, either msf or some local riding school.

I agree... That's why I'm soliciting help from here. You have any links or personal recommendations?
 

kxmike

Well-known member
The kids pick it up pretty fast but I would recommend keeping your son off the big track untill he gets a little more experience. It's fine if the track is empty, but it's pretty dangerous when there are a lot of bigger faster bikes out there jumping all the doubles. It would actually be safer to start him racing because then there would only be small bikes on the track...my son started racing at 4 on a jr50 and did really well.
 

usndocjaysin

Well-known member
The kids pick it up pretty fast but I would recommend keeping your son off the big track untill he gets a little more experience. It's fine if the track is empty, but it's pretty dangerous when there are a lot of bigger faster bikes out there jumping all the doubles. It would actually be safer to start him racing because then there would only be small bikes on the track...my son started racing at 4 on a jr50 and did really well.

That's why I took him on it when there was basically no one on it... Didnt want him to get hurt or anyone else... Racing, how would one get started in that???



So the site planegrey suggested is an msf course and the guy said it starts at 7 y/o... Any other suggestions guys???
 
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kxmike

Well-known member
That's why I took him on it when there was basically no one on it... Disintegrating want him to get hurt or anyone else... Racing, how would one get started in that???


It's actually pretty easy to get in to mx racing. Just show the morning of a local race, go to registration and fill out the required forms. Usually have to pay for a yearly membership card ($30-$60) then pay for the race entry (usually around $30).
I would suggest going to a race just to watch first...get a feel for it all. You can check out the calendar of events on the website of every local mx track to see when the next race is. Spectator fees are usually arouind $10. You can also walk through the pits and talk to parents/kids that race.
 

Butch

poseur
Staff member
So the site planegrey suggested is an msf course and the guy said it starts at 7 y/o... Any other suggestions guys???

I think if you might be able to arrange something private with Rich Oliver, and it would likely be well worth it. Or Brian Garahan.
 

usndocjaysin

Well-known member
It's actually pretty easy to get in to mx racing. Just show the morning of a local race, go to registration and fill out the required forms. Usually have to pay for a yearly membership card ($30-$60) then pay for the race entry (usually around $30).
I would suggest going to a race just to watch first...get a feel for it all. You can check out the calendar of events on the website of every local mx track to see when the next race is. Spectator fees are usually arouind $10. You can also walk through the pits and talk to parents/kids that race.
I'll have to look into that and see if that's something my son would like to do. Thank you for the heads up and direction! But it still leaves me with my original post request to train my son... Getting into racing would be awesome if he'd like to, which I'm sure he would, but obtaining the skills to be efficient and safe are still present...

I think if you might be able to arrange something private with Rich Oliver, and it would likely be well worth it. Or Brian Garahan.

+2 on this approach. Before you know it, your kid will be on the podium.
Have fun Dad, let him have fun too. The good stuff will come in time.


.
Butch and Papi... I'll take a look but I'm sure private lessons are lots of money... Being a single dad is hard enough as it is but maybe it's something I can save up for :dunno in the mean time I'm looking for any advise or maybe people to hook up with to kindly share some knowledge...



You all have been a great help thus far! Please keep suggestions/advise going!!!
 

DONGLEE

Senor Stew Padasso
Having 3 kids myself I've helped with a lot of young riders because I had bikes of all sizes almost all the time. + one on hold your line, a faster rider usually has already pretty much picked his line around a slower rider long before he gets there. Which brings up one point I've drilled into my boys. Just like driving in traffic, he should be looking a ways ahead so he has time to dodge a big rock, rut or whatever. New riders tend to look directly in front of them instead of "reading" the terrain ahead. I know of a private track very close to Argyle, in my opinion they've gotten out of control with prices. If you want, you can pm me your number and we'll talk a little more about possibly getting you a player pass to use said track. Donny
 

EastBayDave

- Kawasaki Fanatic -
I'd like my kids to learn, but no bux, or small bikes. All I got is my ZRX1200 & that's way too big of course for a noob's 1st ride. What to do?
 

redrum750

Well-known member
Brok McAllister is near Sacramento. Has great training and facilities. And he had little kids riding around a supermoto track on all kinds of really little stuff. He also has excellent dirt training instruction. His place is found at "supermotoschools.com" You can't go wrong there. :)
 

Enchanter

Ghost in The Machine
Staff member
The MSF has a dirtbike course, I'm not sure what the minimum age is. To my knowledge, there are only 2 facilities conducting the course in the local area: Santa Rosa, and Rich Oliver's Mystery School. Give those guys a call.
 

usndocjaysin

Well-known member
...If you want, you can pm me your number and we'll talk a little more about possibly getting you a player pass to use said track. Donny
PM sent
Brok McAllister is near Sacramento. Has great training and facilities. And he had little kids riding around a supermoto track on all kinds of really little stuff. He also has excellent dirt training instruction. His place is found at "supermotoschools.com" You can't go wrong there. :)
Thank you! I'll look into it!:thumbup
The MSF has a dirtbike course, I'm not sure what the minimum age is. To my knowledge, there are only 2 facilities conducting the course in the local area: Santa Rosa, and Rich Oliver's Mystery School. Give those guys a call.

MSF course min age is 7... Thank you for the info though!:)
 

seavoyage

grunt n00b
I'd like my kids to learn, but no bux, or small bikes. All I got is my ZRX1200 & that's way too big of course for a noob's 1st ride. What to do?
@ EastBayDave - when my kids became old enough to ride, I realized that I couldn't involve them with my street riding; so I sold my street bikes, traded in for dirt bikes, and now every riding opportunity is shared time with my kids. Choosing a riding activity that allows me to spend time with my kids is more important than riding alone or with the group rides.

Sooo long story short what can I do to help my son become a safe and better rider? Drills, things to say in a way he'll understand, etc... Any and all help is appreciated. I might add I have limited knowledge in dirt riding for I've mostly rode street and have rode dirt a handful of times.

Doc,

Give your son every opportunity for seat time!

Start your kids with the right foundation, consider trials.... CRF50 models are way too heavy for the l'il ones. Start them on a Strider till they reach 5 y/o, then an Oset 16.0 or Kuberg Trials-E, then move them up to a proper trials bike when they're 12. You can be assured your child will probably out ride you if you follow this path and not follow the conventional route; and he will probably thank you when he outrides all his friends in the dirt. Here's an excellent thread on the pros & cons: http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=847080


Explore the Oset electric bike, the Kuberg, or the GasGas TXT-e . I don't recommend the 50cc Trials bikes for a beginner... very intimidating compared to CRF50/PW50/JR50.

The best thing about trials: tons of seat time in your backyard. and with the Oset, no noise. My kids can ride almost every day, and I don't need to load up for Carnegie, Hollister, etc. Being able to ride anytime anyday makes a huge difference in riding skills development and enjoying the sport.

Here's a list of local dealers if you're trying to source an Oset: http://osetbikes.com/us/us-dealers/ or a Kuberg: http://www.kuberg.com/Dealers.aspx . The GasGas is available from LewisposrtUSA: http://www.lewisportusa.com/

Welcome to the world of OSET ownership. My three kids have each started trials on OSETs, and I am convinced they are the best thing to happen to off-road motorcycling since suspension.

As you noted, though, the tech knowledge is quite dispersed right now. Our club has a number of dads who have fiddled with the bikes, trying alternative batteries and controllers, as well as adding more robust running gear.

There is some depth in Trials Central, at http://www.trialscentral.com/forums/forum/62-mini-electric-trials-bikes/ for your perusal if you haven't done so.

Folks -

After lots of looking and poking around and selling my DR to finance this and other farkling projects, our (I say "our", but it's really my 5 year old's bike) 16" 36V Oset finally arrived. Kevin Templeton at Carson Motorsports/KTM in Carson City, NV gave me a great deal on a new 2011 bike. My little dude (and I) are psyched. :D

This is the Strider of motorcycles... total game changer I think. Incidentally I had no idea that Osets even existed until the KTM rally this fall here in Bend. I had the opportunity to talk to Jimmy Lewis and was bemoaning the lack of good bikes for my little dude. Jimmy recommended Oset!

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The ability to jump on and ride around the yard and/or neighborhood while actually learning useful bike handling skills and not pissing anybody off is just priceless. It's an even bigger advantage here in Oregon where kids can't ride on public lands until they're 7 years old. :cry Maybe the Oset is what will finally allow America to turn out some Grahame Jarvis' of our own :D I just hope I didn't make a mistake getting the 36V bike instead of the 24... this thing rips...

Oset in the box... very simple assembly. Essentially just the handlebars and front wheel.

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Waiting for the first 12 hour charge (they say 12 hrs for the first three charges...) was painful.

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Later that night I tested the factory speed setting and turned the potentiometer up about 1/2 turn. The bike almost ripped out of my hands and launched across the garage. Lesson learned... 1/2 turn is a LOT. :eek1

First ride was this morning... outdoor temp about 24 degrees F. He sat on the bike and we talked and worked through some throttle and brake movements. Kicked up the kick stand, turned it on, etc. Talked about how to start out and that I had the speed turned way down. Oset recommends that noobs paddle along and work through some drills before standing up, etc. All good info... I think.... My guy is about 5.5 years old and is a pretty good rider after starting on a Strider at about 20 months. At any rate he fired it up in the yard, stood up, and then immediately rode it off the curb and headed down the street with me jogging along. Very cool!

2nd ride was over lunch. Turned up the speed a bit and he got pretty comfortable with the bike. Some more lessons learned about turning off the key before trying to get off the bike...

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Curb "jump" video. He's getting better at keeping the front wheel up.

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With all that said, I can't find any established community support for this thing. Oset has a Facebook page with some traction and of course the UK and American web portals (of which the US one is new and extremely buggy). There are some good threads here and elsewhere, but no "go to" location that I can find. (If there is one, please let me know and I'll shut up.) I'd love to develop that here, as I've seen some great Oset posts with custom fork and shock fitting, etc (nicely done triplewhipper!).

Issues/Questions I'd like to address on our Oset are:

  • Variable chain tension - Oset says to adjust them "taut". Unfortunately ours is both *TIGHT* and *LOOSE*. This would seem to indicate that the rear sprocket is possibly not concentric with the hub. Any ideas?
  • The Dreaded Dead Zone - As Oset will tell you, when the speed is turned down on the 36V bike there's quite a dead zone in the throttle that makes starts and slow speed a bit tricky, especially for kids. I've seen mention of aftermarket motor controllers and DIY throttle stops. The bike can be a handful for my little guy. Any new info here is appreciated.
  • SLA Battery Charging - These three initial (and every 10 charges thereafter) 12 hour charges have me curious. The 36V bike appears to have (3x) 12V/10 AHr batts in series and a 1.8 A charger. 12 hours seems like a punishingly long charge. Is it really necessary to equalize the crap out of these things three times right out of the box?
  • Suspension - Eventually I'll probably try to address suspension. The bike seems pretty unbalanced out of the box, with a very soft front fork and a very stiff (at least to a 5 year old) rear end. What kind of sag are you guys seeing with the typical little 5 - 6 year old kid?
  • Tire Pressure - What are you guys running? The 30 - 40 PSI Oset recommends seems high?
My ultimate goal (still haven't gotten the wife on board) would be to become an Oset dealer here in Bend and try to get some activities going for the little guys and girls. I know this is an uphill battle in the states, but our sport will eventually die or be legislated away (and then die) if we don't get the little ones involved.

That's it for now! Now I just need to find a Trials bike of my own... :deal.
 
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