No license... an invitation to a :rose.
- Thread starter budman
- Start date
Cheyenne
Well-known member
Yeah, but you have to work to make it happen. You could ride every day until you're 97 and still be fairly mediocre if you didn't try to learn from each ride.
Given the fact that even after 97 years of trying to learn that there would still be more...we need to double time it on the learning aspect of riding! We're always behind! :laughing
That's what makes riding/driving/skateboarding great for me, constant learning.
Carlo
Kickstart Enthusiast
A private seller can at least ask to see the buyer's drivers license, and verify that it has a motorcycle endorsement.
If the buyer refuses to show their license, the seller has no obligation to sell the bike.
That's a very minimal standard, and it's easy to argue that an endorsement doesn't guarantee competence or common sense, but given the statistics that budman quoted, it will weed out the highest risk individuals.
To address the suggestion that a group like BARF should offer rider mentoring or training; that's a huge undertaking.
Consider the risk of some "mentored" newbie crashing and taking his mentors to court for damages. That would require at the very least, a large insurance policy for the organisation offering the service.
How do they select qualified trainers? Is there training for the trainers? Not just on "how to teach someone to ride", but on the legal responsibilities, etc. that might be involved.
Where do they do the training? Is it a good idea to offer a formal "mentoring" session on a public road, where any number of things might go wrong?
I could list other issues, but I'm late for work as it is...
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Carlo
Kickstart Enthusiast
Living is constant learning. Mastery is achievable in anything, but there's always more to learn.
JakesKTM
Well-known member
I was 16, unlicensed, no helmet, riding my first EVER bike (RD350) in the East Bay. Then when I was 18 I joined the military and had to take one of those MSF courses to get on base. Still no license or helmet when I lrode off base, moved up to a Ninja 600. What kept me from being a statistic - I don't really know other than luck. But I always did have a hard head and a natural respect for the power of a motorcycle.
I think the culture of stunting and racing plays a huge part in today's generation, which is why I LOVE video's like Keith Code's Twist II - because he goes into real world riding techniques and encourages young riders to take it to the track. That is where it belongs.
I think the culture of stunting and racing plays a huge part in today's generation, which is why I LOVE video's like Keith Code's Twist II - because he goes into real world riding techniques and encourages young riders to take it to the track. That is where it belongs.
OldMadBrit
Well-known member
This is the only Western country that allows undocumented riders to purchase a bike from a dealer. Pretty much everywhere else, the dealer is required to verify that the buyer has the appropriate license and proof of insurance before he can transfer title.
AFAIK, automobile dealers in the US have this obligation - so why not Moto dealers? :x
AFAIK, automobile dealers in the US have this obligation - so why not Moto dealers? :x
JakesKTM
Well-known member
Moto's are toys
DiScoTeknix
The one and only
I'm out of the loop due to WoW overdose, can someone please explain to me what a "sprotbile" is?
Thanks,
Licensed Motorcyclist
Thanks,
Licensed Motorcyclist
barf slang for sportbike :teeth
It is an amazing stat.. some say stats don't count.. but if someone sees this and decides I need to get training and a license then it is a big stat win.
:smoking
OldMadBrit
Well-known member
My point exactly. If you need to prove license and insurance for a "toy" why not a moto? :teeth
I think what really matters is personal responsibility and training. I think the statistic is swayed because someone who is more cautious and responsible in general will get their paperwork done seek training and become liscenced. Therefore unliscenced riders are probably statistically less responsible.
Personnally, since I did not get my liscense through MSF having the piece of paper did not make me safer... Taking it at a responsile pace and having an experienced mentor and otherwise having an attitude to always learn and to always come home safe is what made a difference. I also think that having that responsible nature is what had me get my permit before my bike, and to follow up with completing my liscense.
That said... A dealership can't tell what kind of person you are. But the piece of paper at least shows you have learned at least something and are serious enough to at least spend some time at the dreaded DMV...
And most importantly DO get your liscense there's no reason not to if you have the skills you should. And plus you get a cool M1 printed on your DL to carry around with you everywhere you go! What's cooler than that??
Personnally, since I did not get my liscense through MSF having the piece of paper did not make me safer... Taking it at a responsile pace and having an experienced mentor and otherwise having an attitude to always learn and to always come home safe is what made a difference. I also think that having that responsible nature is what had me get my permit before my bike, and to follow up with completing my liscense.
That said... A dealership can't tell what kind of person you are. But the piece of paper at least shows you have learned at least something and are serious enough to at least spend some time at the dreaded DMV...
And most importantly DO get your liscense there's no reason not to if you have the skills you should. And plus you get a cool M1 printed on your DL to carry around with you everywhere you go! What's cooler than that??
ST Guy
Well-known member
I don't think it has anything to do with their ability to survive crashes. Many other types of bikes survive just as well. I think it has more to do with the fact that immature, poorly trained, young males with no sense of mortality have a tendency to push the limit (not knowing where the edge really is) and the crash more often. And then don't have the resources to fix their bikes back up. Thus, if they manage to survive, they go back out to the same haunts, doing the same things, and riding their thrashed bikes because it's all they have.
And it's not because the bikes are the fastest that they are crashed the most. It's because those bikes are the choice of the demographic most likely to wad their bikes. If it was suddenly fashionable among that demographic to ride 250 cruiser wanna-be's, then those would be the bikes being crashed.
flying_hun
Adverse Selection
There you have it.
reidconti
Well-known member
Before I even got my license, let alone a motorcycle, I was reading up on accident statistics, trying to reassure myself, I guess.
I know it doesn't mean it can't happen to me, but I felt somewhat better after seeing how huge the percentage of fatalities that involved one or more of: under 18, uninsured, unlicensed, unhelmeted riders.
I know it doesn't mean it can't happen to me, but I felt somewhat better after seeing how huge the percentage of fatalities that involved one or more of: under 18, uninsured, unlicensed, unhelmeted riders.
skater1on1
Well-known member
Wait, there is actual training to get a motorcycle license? Since when ... ? (Don't say MSF)
DaveT319
Marquez FTW
Outside of that, no there isn't much out there. Maybe there should be. Much like there are driving schools, there should be riding schools. Something to make new riders safer on the road than just trial-and-error.
Dave
I started out on an old beat to shit Ninja 250. I had it for around a year, and 8k miles. Never crashed it, although I did drop it at near-0 speed a couple times.
I then moved on to bigger bikes and promptly started crashing.
bike/miles i did/street crashes:
ex250/8k/0
gs700/6k/2 (1 my fault)
klx650/5k/1 (plus some dirt ones)
625smc/12k/1 (plus some dirt ones)
929rr/4k/0 (so far) (plus a dirt one... yes, trails on a 929)
leaving out a couple bikes that I didn't put any significant mileage on, probably 1k total on them. if I was intentionally off pavement, it's a dirt crash and not counted in those numbers. There are a fair number of dirt crashes, 3 which count - all others were insignificant damage to me and the bike. All of these crashes were due to loss of traction (sometimes due to shit on the road), not running off the road.
I'm not saying it's entirely the bike, but... ninja 250s are easy to not crash. I'm quite glad I took MSF, too.
I then moved on to bigger bikes and promptly started crashing.
bike/miles i did/street crashes:
ex250/8k/0
gs700/6k/2 (1 my fault)
klx650/5k/1 (plus some dirt ones)
625smc/12k/1 (plus some dirt ones)
929rr/4k/0 (so far) (plus a dirt one... yes, trails on a 929)
leaving out a couple bikes that I didn't put any significant mileage on, probably 1k total on them. if I was intentionally off pavement, it's a dirt crash and not counted in those numbers. There are a fair number of dirt crashes, 3 which count - all others were insignificant damage to me and the bike. All of these crashes were due to loss of traction (sometimes due to shit on the road), not running off the road.
I'm not saying it's entirely the bike, but... ninja 250s are easy to not crash. I'm quite glad I took MSF, too.
boney
Miles > Posts
Mentoring does not have to be any kind of formal relationship. It could be as simple as "let's take a run down 9, could you critique my lines?" In some sense, while everyone is sitting around talking about riding there is a bit of mentoring going on. The camradarie of riding lends itself well to discussing situations, tips, and strategies all of which fall under the guise of learning something some your friends/acquaintances. :thumbup
boney
Miles > Posts
Why not?
As I see it, there are two ways to get your motorcycle license;
1. Go ride the lollipop at the DMV. (no training)
2. Learn something in the MSF course and get a riding-test waiver. (training)
If you'd like to argue the finer points of the MSF course and whether it merits being called training, that's one thing. However, just about any motorcycle NOOB is going to learn something useful in that class.
skater1on1
Well-known member
Learning "one useful thing" is hardly sufficient (in my mind) training for hopping on the back of a modern motorcycle with no prior riding experience/training. I do agree that there should be mandatory motorcycle classes as there are with driving. Maybe some derivative of the Euro CC limits would be helpful here. (You can only ride a certain size bike with the corresponding license).
Also, how folks over 21 are exempt from ANY training whatsoever baffles me.