A very useful DMV form to have with you when buying or selling a bike

I just bought my bike from a guy who lives in Auburn, CA. I met up with him in Fairfield last Wednesday, and did the deal in the parking lot of the shopping mall.

As he was filling up the info on the title, he made a typo and started to write the mileage (9800) starting from the fifth right-most digit on the title, instead of the fourth digit. He scratched the fifth digit and put his initials above it. I didn't think much of it.

Lo and behold... DMV does NOT like any scratches in that area, and a simple initial on the side doesn't work either. Both parties have to complete and sign the following form: "Vehicle/Vessel Transfer and Reassignment Form"

This form is not available online. You can pick one (or few) up from your DMV office (or AAA locations).

I had to fedex the form to the guy, so he can sign it and fedex it back to me. This cost me $50 that I didn't have to pay Fedex, and a few days delay in transferring the title. No photocopies or faxes allowed. It must be the original form with original signatures.

Also, at the bottom of this form, there is a place for the seller to provide power of attorney to the buyer, so the buyer can later on sign for anything that the seller's signature is required for. I can see a few other situations where this can help greatly.

So, my suggestion to you, is to obtain and have one or two copies of this form with you, especially when you are traveling far to buy or sell a car or bike. In case of a typo like the example above, have the form completed (I highlighted the portions that need to be completed below.)

I would also suggest that the seller (you if you are selling) should fill up the power of attorney portion for the buyer anyways, as this way, any other types of registration requirements and surprises that may come up later on, the buyer doesn't have to go back to the seller for a signature, and your time (be it seller or the buyer) is not wasted.

damn... never even heard of that...

right click...save. :thumbup

everytime I'm at DMV I grab a handfull of these

I've been to hell. I spell it...i spell it dmv
Anyone that's been there knows precisely what I mean
I've stood in line and waited near an hour and fifteen
And if I had my druthers I'd screw that chimpanzee-call it pointless

About this form and why it is not available online...

http://www.dmv.ca.gov/forms/reg/reg262.htm

insyder said:

About this form and why it is not available online...

http://www.dmv.ca.gov/forms/reg/reg262.htm

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Thanks for the link. I was too lazy to go look for it online. :thumbup

Copy/pasted from the above link:


The Vehicle/Vessel Transfer and Reassignment Form (REG 262) is a single-page multipurpose form that combines odometer disclosure, bill of sale, and power of attorney.

The REG 262 is not available online because it is printed on security paper, which makes it compliant with federal odometer disclosure regulations.

If you do not need to disclose the odometer reading, you may download and print a Bill of Sale (REG 135) form or a Power of Attorney (REG 260) form.

To obtain a REG 262 form, call DMV’s Automated Telephone Service at 1-800-777-0133 (available 24 hours a day, 7 days a week) to have a form mailed to you

be careful assigning power of attorney. As Faz stated, you are basically giving someone else the right to sign things for you. I don't know the extent of power the DMV will assign if you do give that power over, but it could get you into trouble if not used with discretion

rritterson said:

be careful assigning power of attorney. As Faz stated, you are basically giving someone else the right to sign things for you. I don't know the extent of power the DMV will assign if you do give that power over, but it could get you into trouble if not used with discretion

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A very valid point. :thumbup

My understanding is that the power of attorney that you are providing using this form, can only be used to sign papers that facilitate the transfer of ownership with regards to the specific vehicle that is shown on the form. Given you have received the money for the bike and you no longer want anything to do with that bike, I don't see any reason not to provide such power of attorney with respect to that bike to the buyer who just paid you fully for it.

Every time you trade in your car/bike to a dealer, the dealer makes you sign one of these power of attorney forms for that vehicle.

faz said:

A very valid point. :thumbup

My understanding is that the power of attorney that you are providing using this form, can only be used to sign papers that facilitate the transfer of ownership with regards to the specific vehicle that is shown on the form. Given you have received the money for the bike and you no longer want anything to do with that bike, I don't see any reason not to provide such power of attorney with respect to that bike to the buyer who just paid you fully for it.

Every time you trade in your car/bike to a dealer, the dealer makes you sign one of these power of attorney forms for that vehicle.

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Say you just bought a bike that hasn't been registered in 3 years. You can't, then, with the power of attorney, register the bike in the previous owners name, assign those fees to him/her, then complete the transfer of ownership to you?

rritterson said:

Say you just bought a bike that hasn't been registered in 3 years. You can't, then, with the power of attorney, register the bike in the previous owners name, assign those fees to him/her, then complete the transfer of ownership to you?

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I don't understand the example you are giving... more so I can't understand how you can 'assign' those fees to him/her and then transfer ownership to yourself.

On the form, the date of sale and mileage of the bike at that time is clearly defined. I don't know how you can 'assign' costs of registering the bike to the previous owner when the form you have clearly says when the bike came out of his possession.

OK, I guess there are probably some weired scenarios that I can't think of that someone can do some damage to me.... but I personally am not really worried about those weired scenarios.

If someone has power of attorney for me, they can act as me in almost every situation. For example, if I didn't register my bike for 3 years, the person I assigned power to could walk into the DMV and re-register my bike in my name, thus making me liable for the 3 years of back registration.

What I am wondering is whether the DMV form grants that type of power of attorney, or whether it is more limited. It states that you give the power to complete/sign any documents necessary to transfer ownership. Well, can you transfer ownership without paying the back due registration? If not, it would be 'necessary to transfer' then right? Since you have power of attorney over that process, you could, according to the language I read, register the bike in that person's name prior to completing the transfer, making the other party liable for the fees while also transferring the bike to you.

I am making a number of assumptions about how registration and transfer of ownership work, as well as what the DMV would let you do if you had that power of attorney signature. They could simply refuse to let you re-register the bike, even if you had that power.

What my question is, really, is how carefully worded is that power, and could it be used to cause malicious harm to someone?

Interesting, but when you register it, they're gonna ask for the money right then wheter you register it in their name or yours. It's not like they go "ok, it's regsitered, here's the stickers and we'll send you a bill."

rritterson said:

For example, if I didn't register my bike for 3 years, the person I assigned power to could walk into the DMV and re-register my bike in my name, thus making me liable for the 3 years of back registration.

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The back registration is tagged to the bike/vehicle. Whoever is to take ownership of the vehicle owns it. I don't believe you can "re-assign" the fees to be paid by another person. Either he pays as the current owner (prior to the transfer paperwork), or you pay as the new owner (after/during the transfer paperwork). Even if you were given the power of attorney, you would still have to pony-up the back fees on the spot at the time of completing the transfer paperwork at the DMV -- they don't care whether the cash came from you or the previous owner.

DMV registration back fees are due when the title transfer takes place.

Don't get me wrong... you gotta do what you feel is best to cover your own ass, and if you don't feel like giving someone power of attorney on transfer of a bike that they have fully paid you for, then don't.

faz said:

I just bought my bike from a guy who lives in Auburn, CA. I met up with him in Fairfield last Wednesday, and did the deal in the parking lot of the shopping mall.

As he was filling up the info on the title, he made a typo and started to write the mileage (9800) starting from the fifth right-most digit on the title, instead of the fourth digit. He scratched the fifth digit and put his initials above it. I didn't think much of it.

Lo and behold... DMV does NOT like any scratches in that area, and a simple initial on the side doesn't work either. Both parties have to complete and sign the following form: "Vehicle/Vessel Transfer and Reassignment Form"

This form is not available online. You can pick one (or few) up from your DMV office (or AAA locations).

I had to fedex the form to the guy, so he can sign it and fedex it back to me. This cost me $50 that I didn't have to pay Fedex, and a few days delay in transferring the title. No photocopies or faxes allowed. It must be the original form with original signatures.

Also, at the bottom of this form, there is a place for the seller to provide power of attorney to the buyer, so the buyer can later on sign for anything that the seller's signature is required for. I can see a few other situations where this can help greatly.

So, my suggestion to you, is to obtain and have one or two copies of this form with you, especially when you are traveling far to buy or sell a car or bike. In case of a typo like the example above, have the form completed (I highlighted the portions that need to be completed below.)

I would also suggest that the seller (you if you are selling) should fill up the power of attorney portion for the buyer anyways, as this way, any other types of registration requirements and surprises that may come up later on, the buyer doesn't have to go back to the seller for a signature, and your time (be it seller or the buyer) is not wasted.

Click to expand...

Yes it is true . Any mistakes on the original form will result in a return trip to Hell . Look carfully ...... All's you have to do is just fill out the form , as you would do any where else , put your signature on the right line , then have one of your friends put the sellers on the right line .

Re: Re: A very useful DMV form to have with you when buying or selling a bike

yelow748 said:

Yes it is true . Any mistakes on the original form will result in a return trip to Hell . Look carfully ...... All's you have to do is just fill out the form , as you would do any where else , put your signature on the right line , then have one of your friends put the sellers on the right line .

Click to expand...

:laughing :laughing

I would HIGHLY recommend against doing that. The last thing you want is to be forging signatures on a Odometer disclosure form, especially if you have nothing to hide (i.e. you are reporting the actual odometer anyway, just have to do this little form due to a stupid scratch/typo.)

The previous owner of the bike, when I called him to say I need to have him sign this form, asked me exactly that: "can't you just scribble something down as my signature?" I said no way. I spent $50 on fedex (paid both ways) to send the form to him and back. Why? $50 in fedex charges is much better than being charged with odometer tampering. If any problems arise later on, the previous owner will be very quick to point out: "hey, that is not my signature there!"