Shifting weight/standing on pegs during U-turns

[sanjuro]

I'm about to give some beginner lessons on how to do U-turns. At the same time, I'm working on my own mountain biking technique of doing tight, off-camber switchbacks.

For me, I'm working on shifting weight, and I like to hear any feedback if I should mention this to my student.

Off road, standing off the seat and shifting weight are critical, but I rarely do it on the street.

I'm trying to emphasis good fundamentals but I also don't want to teach unnecessary techniques since it may be distracting.

FYI this person is planning a Honda Rebel or a Harley 883 as the first bike.

 

[Tom G]

Alameda county sherriff you stay seated while doing u turns in the parking lot.

 

[Beanzy]

For a beginner, consider putting emphasis on turning the head and looking into the turn in making a U-turn. And maybe lowering the inside shoulder some. Make the lesson simple. The rider can work on making tighter turns later.

 

[motomania2007]

Turn head before turning bike
Keep head turned all the way through the turn
Keep eyes up, looking through the exit of the turn, not down at theground
Shift shoulders to the outside before turning the bike
Feather the clutch to control the speed
Keep throttle steady
Apply a little rear brake

 

[Beanzy]

Teach the beginner about steady throttle control in 1st gear. That'll help immensely. Especially mention that the bike will "stand up" as long as the throttle hand keeps a steady pace.

 

[Maddevill]

Doing U turns is the one time I will tell a noob to use the rear brake. I want them to learn the balance of throttle, clutch and rear brake to keep the bike stable. Looking way around the arc is very important too. Expect them to drop the bike at least once. I suggest either taking off the pretty bodywork or putting on some rashed stuff. Making tight U turns is actually one of the more tricky things to learn.

Mad

 

[SVsick50]

I drop my foot down, dip my bike and spin out. It is almost a full 180 turn, and it's something I adopted from dirt riding. I wouldn't recommend that for a noob, tho.

Definitely do not stand up on my pegs, and I stand up on my pegs often for terrain adjustments.

 

[Gary856]

It's natural for experienced mountain bikers and dirt riders to stand on pegs. The ergos of those bikes facilitate that.

Heavy street bikes (especially cruisers that aren't set up for standing) and new rider - I don't think so. It's too much a balancing act, and you're better off just focusing on throttle control and vision. You can still counter-weight be sitting on the outside edge of the seat during a u-turn.

 

[Gravisman]

The safest and easiest way to perform a u-turn is by putting your inside foot down in the middle. Efforts to avoid that are purely ego.

Also, ya know, look where you want to go.

 

[Holeshot]

A U-turn is clutch control and little to no lean angle along with little speed. This is the one time a beginner should understand (and be taught) to PULL the inside bar. They likely will still be thinking of actively counter steering.

 

[sanjuro]

Doing U turns is the one time I will tell a noob to use the rear brake. I want them to learn the balance of throttle, clutch and rear brake to keep the bike stable. Looking way around the arc is very important too. Expect them to drop the bike at least once. I suggest either taking off the pretty bodywork or putting on some rashed stuff. Making tight U turns is actually one of the more tricky things to learn.

Mad

Yeah, it's a trick a friend told about how to pass the DMV key turn, clutch and rear brake.

 

[ThinkFast]

Depends on bike you’re on. Some setups allow you to stand on pegs, all weight on outside peg, leg up on seat, push bike under you. (I was taught this in a clinic on my R1200GS).

Regardless, as others said, turning head and really looking where you want to go is key.

 

[ThinkFast]

I'm about to give some beginner lessons on how to do U-turns. At the same time, I'm working on my own mountain biking technique of doing tight, off-camber switchbacks.

Re MTB switchbacks, presumably you have gotten proficient at normal switchbacks in terms of your technique - wide line, late turn in, fast cut to apex, wide out.

Off-camber is a whole ‘nother story/skill set as near as I can tell. We only have one on my usual trails, and in addition to being slightly off-camber, it’s also goes from level to uphill, and gnarly with sharp rocks and a slight step. I’ve sessioned on it a few times and have only cleaned it once. Highly technical. I think the answer lies in getting three things just right: keeping up your speed/momentum, trusting your front tire, and having your crank in exactly the right position so you can apply power at exactly the right time.

PS - during the adventure riding clinic I did on the GS they set up a switchback course on the side of a hill with cones and had us ride up to a cone, do a tight u-turn around it, and then ride down to the next cone and do a u-turn around it, etc etc. Oddly, I found that doing the u-turn at the top of the hill was easier than the one at the bottom. Something about heading down and getting the bike to turn tightly going slow was harder than starting on the uphill side.

 

[Kantoh]

Agree. Start with fundamentals.

 

[cellige]

Relying on the ability to stand is pretty bike dependent, better to have control seated.

 

[danate]

It all depends on how much of a beginner you are dealing with.

Have them practice riding slow in a straight line using their clutch and/or rear brake to control speed. Once they can do that, have them start out at that pace and then make it into a U-turn. The next focus after controlling their speed should be making sure they have a good head turn and maintaining it.

After that is mastered, you can work on shifting weight, but I'd just start with moving the shoulders to the outside of the bike as a start. If you start talking about weighting pegs or sliding their butt, it's too much to pile on top of the U-turn itself.

 

[blakduc1]

What works for me for slow, parking lot turn-arounds, or maybe a U-turn in the street, is to push the bike down, into the turn, staying off the front brake (or use it with finesse), staying up on top of the bike, kind of an off-road type thing maybe. I think of it like, the usual way we turn, at speed, is to lean into the turn, leaning with the bike or leaning off of it. But without the speed, when turning around slow, stay up on the bike and lean it in, staying seated.

For dual sport stuff, off road, maneuvering around stuff, a BMW performance instructor taught me how you can stand, and for a left turn, for example, kind of get up on the bike, toward the front some, pushing it down some, and put your right knee against the tank. You kind of turn your body a little toward the turn. I think you would be weighting the outside peg more when doing this. You can turn really slow, with a lot of balance and control. Takes a little practice, but then it starts to feel natural. Do the opposite for the right turn.

When we run Wolf Pen Gap in GA (part of Highway 180), there is this one turn that is really a sharp switch-back. You have to slow way down for it and gear way down, and for a long time I could never feel good about going through it, and I always felt like I was just too slow in it. Finally one day I realized that I could use that technique of leaning the bike down, staying up over it, and I could control it with confidence and I started getting through it faster and pulling out of it harder. But that is the only turn in Wolf Pen Gap where I would use that technique.

Smoothness, of course, is always important.

dp

 

[Gravisman]

If you want to do a u-turn quickly and with confidence, stick your inside leg out. There’s a super weird thing in the motorcycle world where everyone thinks it’s a sign of failure to put a foot down in a u-turn. You’ll be safer, faster, and more confident if you ignore that stigma and stick your damned foot out.

 

[rodr]

This topic has always interested me. While the input from experienced riders is great, I'd love to see answers that are more science-based. Some of my own impressions are:

1. Countersteering is always a requirement for turning or at least for initiating a turn, except from a dead stop. Sometimes this looks like a "dip" followed by steering into the turn, and if you end up pulling the inside bar (or pushing the outside) that's to keep from falling over.

2. If you need to go fast, lean into the turn. If traction is a problem and you don't care how fast you turn, then you counter-balance. Counter-balancing can also give you a shorter turning radius because the bike leans more.

3. Putting a foot out probably works better with a dirt bike than with a street bike. I'm not so sure on that one though.

 

[Enchanter]

Turn head before turning bike
Keep head turned all the way through the turn
Keep eyes up, looking through the exit of the turn, not down at the ground
Shift shoulders to the outside before turning the bike
Feather the clutch to control the speed
Keep throttle steady
Apply a little rear brake

This, a million times this. And put some pressure on the outside footrest.

It's natural for experienced mountain bikers and dirt riders to stand on pegs. The ergos of those bikes facilitate that.

Heavy street bikes (especially cruisers that aren't set up for standing) and new rider - I don't think so. It's too much a balancing act, and you're better off just focusing on throttle control and vision. You can still counter-weight be sitting on the outside edge of the seat during a u-turn.

This is good too, you should stay seated. I find that novices struggle with shifting their butt to the outside of the seat and they are more successful counter weighting with foot pressure instead.