Non M/C question, doorless, legal?

TurkeyRun

Member
First of all, a big "thank you" to all the LEOs and their families who do what they do, every day, to protect our communities. Much, much, respect and appreciation.

I hope this is ok, not a motorcycle question.

I'm one of them folks waiting on a 2021 Ford Bronco. :banana

One of the cool features is, the doors come off and the sideview mirrors, being attached to the A-pilar, stay on (unlike Jeeps).

So my question is, would driving this on a CA highway, with the doors off be legal?

I'm not questioning the wisdom of jamming down 580 like this. I'm thinking like going to-from trailheads, running into town from Prairie City to get lunch, that sort of thing.

All else being legal (lights, horn, mirrors, yada-yada) If I drove into town like this, am I going to be cited in CA?

2021-ford-bronco-four-door.jpg


TIA
 
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cheez

Master Of The Darkside
CVC 26709 says mirrors are required, so the Bronco meets that.

I read nothing that says doors are required.
 

ScottRNelson

Mr. Dual Sport Rider
I see Jeeps around here once in a while without doors. But this ain't California.

When I finally get my Bronco, I might drive it once or twice with the doors off, just because. Personally, I don't see the advantage of taking the doors off for anything that I plan to do with it. :cool
 

TurkeyRun

Member
I see Jeeps around here once in a while without doors. But this ain't California.

When I finally get my Bronco, I might drive it once or twice with the doors off, just because. Personally, I don't see the advantage of taking the doors off for anything that I plan to do with it. :cool

I had a '68 Bronco I used to rock crawl in the mid-Atlantic region.

Doors don't like trees.

I had beautiful 1968 doors. I would take them off, trailer the truck to weekend events, and bounce around. I'll never forget the sicking feeling I got when I had the doors on, and slowly.... kinda..... rocked.... to the left, and put a door into a tree.

That's what I'm hoping to avoid when I feel "adventurous". My use-case for doorless-mode, is that. But I didn't wanna hassle with off/on to use public roads as needed.
 

bojangle

FN # 40
Staff member
Sweet!

Thanks!

Guess what else doesn't have doors? My motorcycle. :)

It is legal.




Once when I was in high school, my friend took the doors off of his Honda Accord and we drove around town like that. He also installed a novelty horn that played a bunch of "horn tunes" like La Cucaracha. He also disconnected the windshield washer nozzles from the windshield. He'd squirt cars behind him, or bicycle riders that he passed. People would get pissed. :laughing. We were just dumb high school kids. Ahhh, the memories of taking doors off. :laughing
 

berth

Well-known member
I saw Jeep running around OC like this. I didn't notice the thing about the mirrors.

It works, legally, I think because the occupants are restrained (i.e. seat belts). For example, I think the problem with people in a pickup bed isn't that they're in the bed, it's that they're not restrained.

And here I wistfully remember the days of old when we run around in the desert, 6 people in an original short bed Toyota pickup, 2 in front, 4 in back, in beach chairs facing each other. It was, truly, a wonderful way to travel.

Another trip, just four of use, up to Sequoia. My friend and I in the back. There's a peace when traveling as a passenger in NOT seeing the traffic in front of you. No "slow down", "speed up", "pass this guy", "look at that idiot" that always just happens automatically as a back seat driver.

You are just along for the ride.

At one point, we were talking and the driver slammed on the brakes for...Something. I turned to my friend and said, "Well, that's it!" He goes "Yea. See you around!". Nothing happened of course.

Save for when it snowed on us, it really was a neat way to travel. I've spent hundreds of miles in the back of a pickup.
 

CDONA

Home of Vortex tuning
I did get a lot of flack during my "I quit motos period", driving my jeep with the windshield down thru town.
Cops hated it, I got a few warnings. I was thinking about small flyscreens as used on sports cars, (early MG) or what passes for a low windscreen on day cruiser boats.
 

Rel

Groveland, where's that?
CVC 26709 says mirrors are required, so the Bronco meets that.

I read nothing that says doors are required.

Two mirrors to be specific... Rear view and drivers, OR drivers and passenger.
 

danielle b

New member
Hi All, not sure if there were any actual cops or ex on the thread but wanted to chime in on this. For the record yes, 12 years as a CHP motor, 11 as a field training officer and instructor for street racing conferences.

The door thing has really come up again with the re-introduction of the four door Jeeps and Broncos.

While there were some older jeeps back in the 70's and maybe 80's that actually were manufactured and tested without doors that would escape the need for doors.

Unfortunately anything after 1992 falls under 24002 CVC (Unsafe Vehicle) per 214 FMVSS (Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standards for side impact protection). Basically in 1992 the government required manufacturers to incorporate structural members into the doors of vehicles to help minimize injuries from side impacts. The standards have been updated to now incorporate seat bolster and curtain airbags etc but in short all vehicles are tested and certified to meet FMVSS requirements by the manufacturers before they can be sold in the US. By removing the doors you are no longer in compliance with the saftey standards. It is a decent ticket which incidentally places the vehicle out of service allowing it to be driven home or to a shop for repairs only from the place of citation (i.e. you can't keep driving it for the weekend at the lake if your doors are at home). Probably the scariest part of it comes to injury liability however. Since you have actively eliminated a federally required safety component you could be determined to be liable for injuries sustained and denied any claims by insurance companies or courts.

Sorry to burst anyone's bubble but wanted to put the info out there and as adults everyone can make their own risk assessment. Take care.
 

bojangle

FN # 40
Staff member
Hi All, not sure if there were any actual cops or ex on the thread but wanted to chime in on this. For the record yes, 12 years as a CHP motor, 11 as a field training officer and instructor for street racing conferences.

The door thing has really come up again with the re-introduction of the four door Jeeps and Broncos.

While there were some older jeeps back in the 70's and maybe 80's that actually were manufactured and tested without doors that would escape the need for doors.

Unfortunately anything after 1992 falls under 24002 CVC (Unsafe Vehicle) per 214 FMVSS (Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standards for side impact protection). Basically in 1992 the government required manufacturers to incorporate structural members into the doors of vehicles to help minimize injuries from side impacts. The standards have been updated to now incorporate seat bolster and curtain airbags etc but in short all vehicles are tested and certified to meet FMVSS requirements by the manufacturers before they can be sold in the US. By removing the doors you are no longer in compliance with the saftey standards. It is a decent ticket which incidentally places the vehicle out of service allowing it to be driven home or to a shop for repairs only from the place of citation (i.e. you can't keep driving it for the weekend at the lake if your doors are at home). Probably the scariest part of it comes to injury liability however. Since you have actively eliminated a federally required safety component you could be determined to be liable for injuries sustained and denied any claims by insurance companies or courts.

Sorry to burst anyone's bubble but wanted to put the info out there and as adults everyone can make their own risk assessment. Take care.

I respectfully disagree.

Working 25 year LEO here, all ready to go and about to start a motor officer assignment, Barf LEO Forum Moderator. But by no means do I claim to be the expert in all things traffic law related.

We are specifically talking about the Ford Bronco, which doors are designed to be easily removed. With vehicles designed without doors, or with easily removable doors, they are exempt from the 214 FMVSS (Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standards for side impact protection).

https://www.nhtsa.gov/fmvss/side-impact-protection

If you download the final rule document on the NHTSA web site linked above, and scroll down to page 105, that is where the side impact test exemptions begin. Page 112 and 113 covers the exemptions for vehicles without doors and those with easily removable doors.

If those vehicles are exempt from requirements under 214 FMVSS (Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standards for side impact protection), and given that there are no specific CVC requirements for doors, I don't see how 24002 CVC (Unsafe Vehicle) can apply to those types of vehicles any more than it can apply to something like a motorcycle when it comes to operating them without doors.

I agree it would apply to most other vehicles, but vehicles like the new Bronco or Jeep Wranglers would be exempt from side impact testing requirements just like motorcycles.

Just food for thought, but if we're "unsafe" to drive a Ford Bronco around with no doors, that's a very slippery slope to outlawing motorcycles. Be careful what you wish for. We just might legislate all fun things away.
 
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ScottRNelson

Mr. Dual Sport Rider
We are specifically talking about the Ford Bronco, which doors are designed to be easily removed. With vehicles designed without doors, or with easily removable doors, they are exempt from the 214 FMVSS (Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standards for side impact protection).

https://www.nhtsa.gov/fmvss/side-impact-protection

If you download the final rule document on the NHTSA web site linked above, and scroll down to page 105, that is where the side impact test exemptions begin. Page 112 and 113 covers the exemptions for vehicles without doors and those with easily removable doors.
Wow! Thanks for that. It's interesting about convertibles too. Once my Bronco shows up (hopefully later in the year), two of my three cars will be exempt from that part of the safety code. :laughing
 
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