Just finished CMSP, need advice

stephanotis

Well-known member
To your point, I have just always had a hard time associating the freedom argument with situations where you can potentially harm others.

I'm all about live and let live, but the rider is not the only person to consider when it comes to safely riding a motorcycle. There are passengers, drivers, cyclists, pedestrians, etc. whom we also need to watch out for.

I'm going for wreckless, not reckless :teeth
 

Enchanter

Ghost in The Machine
Staff member
Small point to clarify:
The CMSP motorcycle safety course is mandatory for riders 20 years old and under.
 

openair

Member
To your point, I have just always had a hard time associating the freedom argument with situations where you can potentially harm others.

I'm all about live and let live, but the rider is not the only person to consider when it comes to safely riding a motorcycle. There are passengers, drivers, cyclists, pedestrians, etc. whom we also need to watch out for.

I'm going for wreckless, not reckless :teeth


I can understand this. I think one of the big problems I have with it being made mandatory is that the courses haven't proven effective in reducing rider accidents and fatalities. So it's really not solving the thing you're concerned about. The accidents are still happening at the same rate or higher (lots of articles on this, but I'm open to data I might not have seen). I would respect the possibility of these courses being required if they made a big dent in the statistics. I could understand the logical argument for it at that point, and that argument would be able to challenge my freedom argument by way of proving that it isn't an arbitrary requirement. But as long as they don't make a dent, it really starts to look arbitrary at the point when it is turned into a mandatory thing (there are people pushing to make them mandatory).

Also, from what I understand, CHP is planning to very soon use these courses as a sort of motorcycle traffic school, required after various motorcycle citations. I suspect the quality of the courses will be impacted (just think about regular traffic school and whether or not people find it helpful) if CHP starts funneling more and more people into these and they become an extension of government.

I'm with you on the safety thing. I just don't think we've found the solution to that.
 

Slow Goat

Fun Junkie
I would respect the possibility of these courses being required if they made a big dent in the statistics. I could understand the logical argument for it at that point, and that argument would be able to challenge my freedom argument by way of proving that it isn't an arbitrary requirement. But as long as they don't make a dent, it really starts to look arbitrary at the point when it is turned into a mandatory thing

You've just made the point that the courses, in addition to needing to being mandatory, are data-proven to be insufficient and the level of proficiency required to obtain a license should be increased. (Note: the number of Squid organ-donors in countries requiring said proficiency-levels is FAR less than here.

I'm good with that. The Freedom thing is a straw-man argument.

Hell, I think you should have to pass an IQ test for a license to drive anything! Thankfully the autonomous cars are coming, I just hope they're priced at a level that even stupid people can afford one.

And Steph, with your approach and attitude, I think you're going to be a responsible rider.
 

openair

Member
The courses, as they exist today, seem to have little justification for being made mandatory. So I'm definitely not making that argument. But yeah if they were beefed up and then proven to reduce accidents and fatalities and associated state costs, the argument would be far more solid EXCEPT that a single set of courses are not the only way to become a good rider (many old-school riders I know have never taken a course), and that should ideally be acknowledged somehow.

I'm not sure I agree that the freedom thing is a straw man argument. Freedom is pretty much at the core of this. Otherwise we'd accept whatever as mandatory checkpoints before we could legally engage in an activity rather than discuss its need to provide a measurable benefit.

In any case, I don't need to keep pushing my view here. I appreciate everyone's viewpoints. This is just mine.
 
Droppin yer ride

Been there, done that... Dropped my bike (2009 BMWF800GS) trying to park it dammit! I'm an old fart and only weigh 145# (maybe 150 kitted out) and managed to pick up my beast of a bike. Only reason I was able to do it was I watched a couple of videos before I ever got on the bike, got over the "stoopid" I'd just done and righted the bike. So I got that particular bit of the moto "mystique" outta the way and it no longer intimidates me.
 

cellige

Member
You can always up your own control skills at any course, however dealing with other cars/traffic can really only be learned on the road. So just going to lower traffic roads and starting there is always a good bet.
 
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