In Praise of 35 horses

Erbuck

Power Lurker
I commute sometimes on a 20hp two-fiddy. I got no qualms about getting on the highway. Like the Hun was saying, its just about planning and working with your limitations. It reaches its max speed around 75. My commute always involves some splitting, so the 75mph max limit is only a problem when traffic isn't balled up. And, like others have said, going wide open throttle is sometimes very cathartic, even if that WOT only gets you to 75mph.
 

GB500guy

Well-known member
I really get the OP's point. Starting out on 50cc bikes in the 1960's and graduating only as far as 350cc by 1980 I have enjoyed many miles on small bikes, including Vacaville to San Diego on a Honda 160 and a 305 Super Hawk, and Mexico on a CB350. I snagged a few AFM wins on a CB350 twin and a CB125 single back in the day, and wrenched for a Honda dealer until 1980. When I left the trade the biggest bikes I had ever ridden were 1000 cc Gold Wings and a couple of CBX's.

But that was then and technology was not what it is now. I do know that handling, braking, and power are far advanced today than back then, and that current technology means much safer handling and stopping ability. But I'm not sure today's massive horsepower bikes are relevant to the everyday realities of public roads.

After 35 years absence from the sport I am finally back into riding with a '75 Honda CB125S and a pair of Honda GB500's from '89 and 1990. So at 67 years old, riding low-tech vintage bikes and living in the deer and bicycle infested twisty road heaven of the coastal hills of Solano and Napa counties, I am quite content to ride within the limits of my bikes and the environment. And I find it supremely satisfying and plenty exciting. The GB500 gives me all the acceleration and passing ability I need for my mostly 45-55 mph posted roads, and besides an aversion to speeding tickets, frequent deer sightings keep me from tempting fate and pushing too fast. The 125 is a fun change of pace where the game becomes conserving momentum through turns and marveling at the ability of a puny 12 hp to propel me through mountainous twisties at speeds that demand attention and control. But most important to me is savoring the ride at an enjoyable pace. That is the essence of motorcycling to me. To illustrate:
http://www.bayarearidersforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=486343

http://www.vjmog.com/ftopict-10694-.html

-Bill
 
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Crom

Well-known member
Here's a neat bike I'm putting together. It's only 45RWHP but I'm betting it's going have me smiling ear to ear.

600x450-1506010122-01_zpscyparxxe.jpg
 

AdrenalineJunky

Track Addict
Warren,

Perhaps you could enlighten us to what this is?

John

Here is the paragraph from www.450triple.com

"The 450 Triple is an inline 4 cylinder, 600cc motorcycle with one cylinder disabled, functionally making it a 3 cylinder, 450cc motorcycle.
Our Builds are simple and inexpensive modifications that allow easy access to the 450 Super Bike grid. Additionally, the modifications are reversible so that the engine can be converted back to a 600cc — for cross class racing or future sale.
The 450 Triple engine power and torque are competitive for the 450 Super Bike, 650 Production, and Formula IV classes run in AFM. For example, most of the 450 Triples produce 70-80 hp and are on par with a built 400 or production SV 650."


It is a metric shit ton of fun!! With all the perks of modern suspension and modern brakes!! Close racing, and a wonderful bunch of people!
 

OldMadBrit

Well-known member
In 1975 I learned to drive in a 1963 Fiat 500 with all of 18HP. It was absolutely the most fun car I have had. I had a similar feeling for my Vespa 150 and its 12HP.

There is definitely more fun in driving a slow vehicle well and the key is maintaining speed - and that is also the problem. I drove my Fiat 500 and rode my Vespa 150 like the immortal 17 year old that I thought I was. Every corner was taken at the very limit of adhesion with a smooth feather touch on the controls. My crowning glory was passing a very surprised Lotus Elan on the exit of a corner, having timed my run down the previous straight to perfection. This works really well on a race track - not so much on the street.

Unfortunately a lot of my my mates got killed wringing out every last bit of performance from their 125's and 250's. I was lucky to survive.

These days I happy to have >100HP and the knowledge that I can enjoy the straights and ride conservative sight lines in the corners.
 

louemc

Well-known member
All Depends On the Rider And the where
I'm riding in a wide variety of altitudes and conditions... I want Power for anything that comes up.

Less power? That only requires less twist.
 

GAJ

Well-known member
Low power generally means much much lower weight which is a very good thing.
 

louemc

Well-known member
Low power generally means much much lower weight which is a very good thing.

Lower weight means different things to different people (riders).

It's a bigger issue to riders that never did anything to learn how to manage weight,
riding in knarly rough conditions (DIRT).

The riders that have a background, have learned the technique... And Deal. :afm199
 

GAJ

Well-known member
Lower weight means different things to different people (riders).

It's a bigger issue to riders that never did anything to learn how to manage weight,
riding in knarly rough conditions (DIRT).

The riders that have a background, have learned the technique... And Deal. :afm199

I've had over 500lb bikes, bike in the 400lb range, bikes in the 300lb range and a bike in the 200lb range.

This thread is not about heavy bikes or powerful bikes, quite the contrary.
 

louemc

Well-known member
I've had over 500lb bikes, bike in the 400lb range, bikes in the 300lb range and a bike in the 200lb range.

This thread is not about heavy bikes or powerful bikes, quite the contrary.

Don't notice any mention of what you Did with those bikes...

And..... not doing anything with them (in knarly Rough surfaces) to learn how to manage weight, is an issue, no matter what you say..:laughing
 

GAJ

Well-known member
Don't notice any mention of what you Did with those bikes...

And..... not doing anything with them (in knarly Rough surfaces) to learn how to manage weight, is an issue, no matter what you say..:laughing

Again, you are way off topic.

Take it to another thread and quit crapping on this one without adding anything of value to the topic at hand.
 
I have had fun on low power bikes, and I have had fun on high power bikes. IMO it depends on the application more than anything.
 

WhoAteMySoup

Чёткий п
Awesome write up by the OP. I am a new rider myself, always loved bikes but did not trust my impulse control enough to get one until I got older. Right, so I picked up a salvaged Ninja 300 thinking that I will get bored of it and resell within a few month, but 4000 miles or so later, I still love that thing. Anyway, I have been in to the car scene for a long time, and the answer to any question there is "a Miata", I think the same thing should hold true in the bike world: a lighweight, underpowered, and buttoned up motorcycle like a Ninja 300, or one of the many supermoto conversions is an ideal way to have fun and improve your technique at the same time.
 

GAJ

Well-known member
Awesome write up by the OP. I am a new rider myself, always loved bikes but did not trust my impulse control enough to get one until I got older. Right, so I picked up a salvaged Ninja 300 thinking that I will get bored of it and resell within a few month, but 4000 miles or so later, I still love that thing. Anyway, I have been in to the car scene for a long time, and the answer to any question there is "a Miata", I think the same thing should hold true in the bike world: a lighweight, underpowered, and buttoned up motorcycle like a Ninja 300, or one of the many supermoto conversions is an ideal way to have fun and improve your technique at the same time.

Love my MX5 too! :laughing
 

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zanshin

Well-known member
I feel that heavy and/or powerful bikes are quite detrimental to learning.

As a case in point.. when I was racing 250 Production in the mid-90s, Saturday practice was grouped by laptime. In my group was a guy on a Ducati 916. I'd blow by him in the corners (on those cheesy Dunlop K591 bias-plys), he'd pass on the straights. And so on, for the whole first year.

I think it's safe to say the guy never learned to ride during that year, while I pushed that Ninja 250 to the ragged edge (and beyond), and I don't know what happened later as I moved on to Formula 3.
 

KazMan

2012 Fifty is Nifty Tour!
Staff member
I enjoyed my Ninja 250, love my R3....oh and I have "a Miata" :laughing

Something very personally satisfying knowing that I made a difference in how fast something with no power went.
 

Schnellbandit

I see 4 lights!
My take has always been that HP/Torque is like brakes. When you really need them suddenly having more than the minimum is a good thing. Then, sometimes you just want it.

The peach you can't have is sour, as the saying goes. Motorcycling isn't about needs mostly, its about wants. There are no rules that say if you have 100 hp and tons of torque that you must use it all, just control the right hand.

You can have a blast riding a 35 hp bike or one with far less but that has zero to do with any bike having more. Power doesnt have to be heavy, unmanageable or less fun going around a turn than some bike with half as much.

How many of us wish for less power? Not many I'd guess although somewhere they exist.

Merging onto a freeway, hit a long straight after a tight turn what is more fun, pushing to 60 like a mad dog chasing a squirrel (safely) or a leisurely glide knowing 65 will take only a few minutes more?

Who among us hasn't when starting out with a lower powered bike, not found some downhill just to feel what a bit more accelleration or speed feels like. Come in, we've all done it.

Alameda/Oakland Tube anyone? Back in the day that is where Honda 200s, Kawasaki 250 Triples and Yamaha Rds went so riders could have a go and find out what 750 Fours and Saki 500 must have felt like.
 

My900ss

Puts the work in
I suspect there are ten people in the AFM who could stomp your butt at a racetrack while riding a Ninja 250, with you on your bike of choice.:laughing

Ok, Sacramento 1/4 mile. They are on a 250 ninja I am on a GSXR1300R. I win 10 times out of 10.

I would also take my chances at Sepang, Phillips Island, Elkhart lake and or Daytona. They are on a Ninja 250 and I am on a Ninja ZX-10. I think I could overcome any talent deficiency there with HP as well.

:laughing
 
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