Fully adjustable suspension is a curse

[kuksul08]

You might think that fully adjustable suspension is a cool thing to have. Low and High speed compression, rebound, and spring preload. Lots of shiny anodized adjusters and 32 clicks of range. However I've found that it is actually a curse, and it comes down to a mental thing.

When I ride a bike with too many available adjustments, I constantly think about how to change them and what could need adjustment to fully optimize the setup. It's a never-ending game of clickers and tweaking things back and forth trying to achieve perfection on a variety of road surfaces.

However, with a non-adjustable bike, I must accept that the suspension is the way it is and learn to ride around it. That way, I am focusing on my riding techniques rather than the machine. It's somehow nicer...


I was reading a review on the S1000XR vs Multi and they said despite the Multi having 10 adjustable settings for all the suspension features and traction control, the BMW's 3 or 4 settings really simplified things and worked fine. Too many options, and it gets overwhelming... how do you know what is the best?

Anyone agree?

 

[day004]

I think it was Kenny Roberts who said that a bike with infinite adjustability just means that there is an infinite number of wrong settings.

 

[day004]

But having said that ,no I don't agree.
When I bought my Aprilia Futura it had only preload and rebound adjustments on both the forks and shock. Compliance was good but ultimate control was lacking. After I installed Preload/rebound/compression adjustable forks from a Falco and a Wilbers triple adjuster on the back, the bike was transformed. Comfort was still great but control was vastly improved. It did take a while to get it dialed in. I never got any great instruction on how to optimize the low speed circuit on the rear, but eventually I got a usable setting. Hopefully there is more written up on that now.

 

[NorCal_SV650S]

It just means you shouldn't mess with it once a pro has set up your stuff correctly...

 

[antidote]

It just means you shouldn't mess with it once a pro has set up your stuff correctly...

Then buy $$ customized components, not $$$$ fully adjustable components.






I can see where 3-4 electronic presets that you can select on the fly would be more useful than 1245000 possible combinations.

 

[russ69]

... I've found that it is actually a curse...

I know what you are saying but I'd rather have the adjustments than not have them. Back a long long time ago, it was said the adjustment range went from bad to worse. My GSXS was WAY over sprung, I'm glad I was able to fix that with just a few turns of a wrench.

It just means you shouldn't mess with it once a pro has set up your stuff correctly...

Unless that pro has fully instrumented your bike, you are still the test rider and you will need to learn to adjust the suspension yourself.

 

[EastBayDave]

You might think that fully adjustable suspension is a cool thing to have. Low and High speed compression, rebound, and spring preload. Lots of shiny anodized adjusters and 32 clicks of range. However I've found that it is actually a curse, and it comes down to a mental thing.

When I ride a bike with too many available adjustments, I constantly think about how to change them and what could need adjustment to fully optimize the setup. It's a never-ending game of clickers and tweaking things back and forth trying to achieve perfection on a variety of road surfaces.

However, with a non-adjustable bike, I must accept that the suspension is the way it is and learn to ride around it. That way, I am focusing on my riding techniques rather than the machine. It's somehow nicer...


I was reading a review on the S1000XR vs Multi and they said despite the Multi having 10 adjustable settings for all the suspension features and traction control, the BMW's 3 or 4 settings really simplified things and worked fine. Too many options, and it gets overwhelming... how do you know what is the best?

Anyone agree?

Shades of "back in the day" eh'? Had to disassemple the forks/shocks to make adjustments =little changes that got you closer was REALLY appreciated. Make you really think about changes b4 u did it...:afm199

I somewhat agree on the new bikes w/huge-combos of adjustments; f/the newbs this could be difficult w/o help f/experienced people...

 

[rsrider]

When humans have more than 3 choices, they invariably make the wrong one. Scientifically proven fact.

I make sure I get my suspension set properly, and then I leave it. The only time I change the suspension is on my Triumph and that's when I have a pillion. And I have the settings written down for that, somewhere.

But, I've only had a few bikes with insanely adjustable suspension.

3 of the 4 bikes I own right now, only the rear is adjustable.


youtu.be/ZtzTyCKh5fY

 

[thenewwazoo]

However, with a non-adjustable bike, I must accept that the suspension is the way it is and learn to ride around it. That way, I am focusing on my riding techniques rather than the machine. It's somehow nicer...

My sister-in-law learned to drive on a manual-transmission 1983 Volvo 240. She struggled with it, and struggled with it, and struggled with it. The car just would not take off from a stop smoothly, and she never knew what gear to be in, and was just generally having a horrible time of it. She thought she was a bad driver, and got really down on herself (and her bratty little sister mocking her didn't help). That is, until her mother drove the car. Turns out the clutch was fucked. She couldn't start smoothly because the clutch would slip-and-grab. She couldn't pick the right gear because the clutch would slip under load and mess up her senses for when to shift. Once the clutch got fixed, she spent another day re-learning how to drive, and never had a problem again.

What's the moral of this story? Learning how to compensate for poor equipment takes mental energy that you should be using to learn the mechanics of the activity. I prefer equipment that I can trust, and that gives me confidence. What's the difference between "shitty stock unadjustable suspension" and "nice suspension badly configured"? One can be tweaked and tested...

 

[fubar929]

I was reading a review on the S1000XR vs Multi and they said despite the Multi having 10 adjustable settings for all the suspension features and traction control, the BMW's 3 or 4 settings really simplified things and worked fine. Too many options, and it gets overwhelming... how do you know what is the best?

Anyone agree?

No.

As far as suspension, I get setup help from someone like Dave Moss then rarely have to touch anything. If I do make an adjustment, it's usually a minor change.

My SuperDuke, like the S1000XR, only has ride modes that are essentially non-adjustable. I hate that! "Street" mode has the smooth throttle response I enjoy, but ABS and TC are overly intrusive. "Sport" mode has near-perfect ABS and TC, but the throttle becomes super-abrupt. And don't get me started on "Rain" mode, which is completely useless... Not being able to tweak the mode setup, like I can on the Multistrada, is frustrating! Don't get me wrong: I'm not constantly adjusting the settings for each of the Multistrada's four different ride modes. Rather I've tweaked them once and now have four modes that are setup for exactly how I want the bike to operate...

 

[augustiron]

I mostly agree with OP. Even if it is mostly working, I get a case of the "what ifs" and then if there is a major change in riding conditions, well then what is a tinkerer to do with numerous settings for a long 2 up or loaded ride, a super goaty road followed by a track day, etc.
I am constantly monkeying with my MTB settings too. Long xc ride? Rocky DH ride? Every damn day #firstworldproblems

 

[mrzuzzo]

I was reading a review on the S1000XR vs Multi and they said despite the Multi having 10 adjustable settings for all the suspension features and traction control, the BMW's 3 or 4 settings really simplified things and worked fine. Too many options, and it gets overwhelming... how do you know what is the best?

Anyone agree?

I disagree as well. I was going to get an XR but the crappy suspension settings really turned me away from it.

Why does some engineer in Germany decide that I need a firm suspension if I want to have quick throttle response and access to all the motor's power? Pass.

All roads are different, all riders are different, and the suspension config/setup on the Multi is worlds ahead of the BMW XR, simply because it means you can adjust it for the riding style and roads that you ride.

 

[augustiron]

I guess i haven't spent much time on the new electronic suspension bikes where all adjustments can be made from the seat while riding. That must be fun to throttle through all the modes to see what is best at that moment with such ease.
I would probably constantly mess with it though.

 

[kuksul08]

I disagree as well. I was going to get an XR but the crappy suspension settings really turned me away from it.

Why does some engineer in Germany decide that I need a firm suspension if I want to have quick throttle response and access to all the motor's power? Pass.

All roads are different, all riders are different, and the suspension config/setup on the Multi is worlds ahead of the BMW XR, simply because it means you can adjust it for the riding style and roads that you ride.

You can adjust the suspension independently, as long as the "coding plug" is installed.

 

[FreeRyde]

1 3/8th's of a turn can make all the difference in the world.

Or you could just ride your hooptie bike with no adjustments... When the front end pops off the ground mid corner you compensate and do stuff and things to go fast.

 

[Reli]

Formula 1 cars have controls on the steering wheel to adjust shit like swaybar stiffness, shock stiffness, wing angle, etc. They don't just "set it and forget it".

 

[GP Suspension]

Regarding suspension setup; there is not an "infinite" number of settings. In fact, for rebound and compression, there's a working range for both: usually about 4 clicks either direction from the factory setting (where the clickers are set stock). Once you get outside that range, there is no more adjustment. Fluid is either fully flowing or locked down. More clicking does nothing.

The proper way to set a bike up is have a professional like Dave Moss, Mike Castro, Mike Canfield, Rob at Evolotion, etc set up your baseline. Here's how the whole mystics of suspension are made clear:

First: let your shop help you determine the correct spring rate for your bike, front and rear.

Second: With the correct springs and any new parts (cartridges, revalve, etc), set the sag on the bike. Either have a shop help you, or do so with a friend on your own. It's pretty easy once you do it a few times.

Third: Take note of the setting and write this down in a notebook. That means turns out/ in for preload, rebound, compression front and rear. That is your baseline, should you ever get lost.

Fourth: while in a wheel chock, play with the front compression from fully stiff to full soft. Bounce on the bike and see what it does each time. Next, do the same with rebound. Put the clickers back to where they were when you started.

Next, go ride the bike. Either call the shop with your determination of what the bike is doing and what you'd like it to do better and have them help you tune it over the phone. Keep whatever tools you need to adjust with you on your ride. To put things simply:

Rebound: controls the return stroke of the fork/ shock. Less rebound (turning the clicker out, to the left) means a quicker/ harsher return stroke. More rebound means a softer and slower rebound stroke. This can allow the fork to "pack in" and not return to its full operating length range, decreasing the travel of your fork/ shock. Turning the clicker in, to the right closes the rebound valving down and slows the return action of the fork/ shock.

Compression: Controls the initial impact/ up stroke of the fork/ shock. Turning the clicker out to the left softens the compression stroke and gives less control over bump resistance. The fork/ shock will be more compliant, but have a more muffled feel. Turning the clicker to the right will stiffen the compression valving. The fork/ shock will feel sharper and firmer. Compression can be used as a band aid for too light of a spring rate, but the drawback is a harsher suspender.

Preload: adjustable preload (not installed which is fixed and not adjustable with a nob/ remote adjustor) changes the effective weight on one end of the motorcycle. To put more weight on the front of the bike, take out preload (turn to the left).

I'd start with that and also recommend you only work on one side of the bike at one time. It's best to keep track of what you don't like that the bike is doing and what you want the bike to do. It's not that hard once you become resolved that changing clickers is always reversible. It's also a good way to learn about suspension...there's nothing you can screw up by changing clickers, except the ride quality (momentarily).

Don't be afraid to try things. Call us at any time for any questions and we'll do our best to educate and steer you right!

 

[kuksul08]

Regarding suspension setup; there is not an "infinite" number of settings. In fact, for rebound and compression, there's a working range for both: usually about 4 clicks either direction from the factory setting (where the clickers are set stock). Once you get outside that range, there is no more adjustment. Fluid is either fully flowing or locked down. More clicking does nothing.

The proper way to set a bike up is have a professional like Dave Moss, Mike Castro, Mike Canfield, Rob at Evolotion, etc set up your baseline. Here's how the whole mystics of suspension are made clear:

First: let your shop help you determine the correct spring rate for your bike, front and rear.

Second: With the correct springs and any new parts (cartridges, revalve, etc), set the sag on the bike. Either have a shop help you, or do so with a friend on your own. It's pretty easy once you do it a few times.

Third: Take note of the setting and write this down in a notebook. That means turns out/ in for preload, rebound, compression front and rear. That is your baseline, should you ever get lost.

Fourth: while in a wheel chock, play with the front compression from fully stiff to full soft. Bounce on the bike and see what it does each time. Next, do the same with rebound. Put the clickers back to where they were when you started.

Next, go ride the bike. Either call the shop with your determination of what the bike is doing and what you'd like it to do better and have them help you tune it over the phone. Keep whatever tools you need to adjust with you on your ride. To put things simply:

Rebound: controls the return stroke of the fork/ shock. More rebound (turning the clicker out, to the left) means a quicker/ harsher return stroke. Less rebound means a softer and slower rebound stroke. This can allow the fork to "pack in" and not return to its full operating length range, decreasing the travel of your fork/ shock. Turning the clicker in, to the right closes the rebound valving down and slows the return action of the fork/ shock.

Compression: Controls the initial impact/ up stroke of the fork/ shock. Turning the clicker out to the left softens the compression stroke and gives less control over bump resistance. The fork/ shock will be more compliant, but have a more muffled feel. Turning the clicker to the right will stiffen the compression valving. The fork/ shock will feel sharper and firmer. Compression can be used as a band aid for too light of a spring rate, but the drawback is a harsher suspender.

Preload: adjustable preload (not installed which is fixed and not adjustable with a nob/ remote adjustor) changes the effective weight on one end of the motorcycle. To put more weight on the front of the bike, take out preload (turn to the left).

I'd start with that and also recommend you only work on one side of the bike at one time. It's best to keep track of what you don't like that the bike is doing and what you want the bike to do. It's not that hard once you become resolved that changing clickers is always reversible. It's also a good way to learn about suspension...there's nothing you can screw up by changing clickers, except the ride quality (momentarily).

Don't be afraid to try things. Call us at any time for any questions and we'll do our best to educate and steer you right!

Thanks for the post :thumbup

When I say infinite settings... it really does feel that way sometimes. For example... a fork with 28 compression clicks, 28 rebound clicks, and 10mm of preload. That's 7,840 combinations. Even if we take your suggestion of 4 clicks in either direction - that's still 640 combinations. Which one is the correct setting?



Let me be clear - I'm not saying fully suspension is technically worse. Of course it has potential to be better, but the psychological implications for tinkerers, engineers, or obsessive compulsive riders are severe.

 

[kuksul08]

Formula 1 cars have controls on the steering wheel to adjust shit like swaybar stiffness, shock stiffness, wing angle, etc. They don't just "set it and forget it".

Formula 1 always gets brought up as being the pinnacle of technology or the "best" in any category. It really has no relation to riding motorcycles on the street. F1 cars are purpose built to do one thing very good. Thousands of hours of engineering are put into each race course to determine the best setup for each specific turn. There are just too many variables on a street bike - and that's where having too many adjustments can be confusing to most riders rather than helpful.

 

[day004]

Compression: Controls the initial impact/ up stroke of the fork/ shock. Turning the clicker out to the left softens the compression stroke and gives less control over bump resistance. The fork/ shock will be more compliant, but have a more muffled feel. Turning the clicker to the right will stiffen the compression valving. The fork/ shock will feel sharper and firmer. Compression can be used as a band aid for too light of a spring rate, but the drawback is a harsher suspender.

That's the high speed circuit, How about the low.
My working analogy is that the HS is the wheel moving up and compressing the shock from the bottom when hitting a bump. The LS is the weight of the rider pressing down on the shock like when bottoming a hill.
One is a fast thrusting action and the other is a slow(ish) pressing action.

Am I in the ballpark?